City Public Space Re-Development Proposal... and a map

Forum to discuss and coordinate the expansion of the CDS and the redevelopment of existing territories.

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Kazuhiko Shirakawa
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Re: City Land Use Proposal

Post by Kazuhiko Shirakawa »

[quote="Sudane Erato":2t1qlba6]On the south side, the majority of Blade Dancer Allee should be removed, and the row of shops pushed back so that they are in line with Dianne's existing shop.[/quote:2t1qlba6]
A pity -- BladeDancer-Allee was the easiest way for me to get from the telehub to my lot (well, at least if I followed roads); now I'd have to go around the SE corner of the MoCA or around the NW corner of the Kirche. But, not a big problem.

I also like the idea of relocating the school to the hill and returning the current school plot to residential (or commercial) use.

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Re: City Land Use Proposal

Post by Sudane Erato »

[quote="Kazuhiko Shirakawa":3fo13tsj] A pity -- BladeDancer-Allee was the easiest way for me to get from the telehub to my lot (well, at least if I followed roads); now I'd have to go around the SE corner of the MoCA or around the NW corner of the Kirche. But, not a big problem.[/quote:3fo13tsj]

Oh! But if we squeezed the little shop up on the hill under the Museum, with outside stairway access to the Platz, we could then have an alley going around it down to Gwynethstrasse. It would be very neat, and, from the telehub, even straighter! :)

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Post by Salzie Sachertorte »

I like the proposals so far, especially the idea of moving the school to the top of the hill.

I don't know if this would mean just moving the building, or starting afresh. If build the school from scratch, perhaps the city could sell the current school building intact; as corporate headquarters for something? Someone's manse?

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Post by Claude Desmoulins »

Wearing my School Trustee hat here....

The school is not opposed in principle to relocating, it's present site was dictated by the in town land market at the time. Remember that the school is paying its own tier at the moment and a move up the hill if it were done would have to take land cost into consideration.

When I started it, I would have been very happy to have the school be a public or semi-public institution. However, there was not much support at the time so the school was launched as a private and has shareholders. I'm sure the board will be happy to examine and consider any redevelopment proposal that might involve the institution.

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late to the discussion (as usual)

Post by Rubaiyat »

with permission I am posting a conversation I had with Satchmo last night. I think that you will see that some of it parallels what has already been discussed.

I am reluctant to remove the schloss, but really like the idea of the ballroom. Then we could say N'burg has balls... anyhow I hope to comment more on the rest of this thread soon.

[20:44] Satchmo Prototype: want my expert consulting opinion bout Neualt?
[20:45] You: sure
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: I would tear down the castle in a heart beat
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: it's not very community oriented
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: and is a giant waste of space
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: I would maybe expand the school in it's place
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: I would rip down the Moca and build a new one dedicated to new media
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: I would also build a nice movie theater somewhere
[20:45] You: hmmm, what is a midieval city without a castle
[20:45] Satchmo Prototype: yea
[20:45] You: may I pass that on?
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: absolutely
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: I would also thin out some of the city buildings maybe
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: because outside the city walls is busier than I've ever seen it
[20:46] You: I am going to post it into the forum
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: inner plots don't seem to be selling as well
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: I would make inside the walls
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: a place for people to gather
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: have events
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: do things
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: school
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: etc
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: have some houses in the walls
[20:46] Satchmo Prototype: and then cultivate outside the walls
[20:47] Satchmo Prototype: one other thing worthwhile might be to revisit the textures on teh outside of the church
[20:47] Satchmo Prototype: it's great inside
[20:47] Satchmo Prototype: but the outside texturs are starting to look dated
[20:47] You: I love the church
[20:47] Satchmo Prototype: I think the same might be said for the city wall too
<snip>
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: anyway my larger advice would be to look at every single building
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: and ask how it fosters community
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: and if it doesn't
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: then ditch it
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: Art can
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: Religion can
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: education can
[20:50] Satchmo Prototype: the town square is nice, it can

[20:51] Satchmo Prototype: maybe if the castle was really pimped out

[20:51] Satchmo Prototype: and a place people wanted to go visit
[20:51] Satchmo Prototype: maybe if it has a Class A ballroom
[20:51] Satchmo Prototype: and peopel would want to go to more formal ball's there
[20:51] Satchmo Prototype: or costume balls
[20:52] Satchmo Prototype: A Castle of the people!

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what is the city?

Post by Rubaiyat »

So far I find all of the ideas intriguing, I do wonder about one of Satchmo's observations:

That the area outside the wall is what is bustling right now.

I realize that that may be the whole point of this, but I think that the "little businesses" model is not succeeding too aweful well. As a person trying to open a "little business" within the walls the biggest concern for me right now is prim count. So much so that I am considering farming to help out with it (if there is any land left).

Now I love the Wall, and I quite like the Schloss, though it is looking a little dated (not old, but dated), and I think the School is about to explode with traffic.

What is the Platz currently used for?

From a casual observation the Platz gets traffic because it is the telehub. The Ratshaus, and school generate traffic and the private lands outside the wall are picking up too.

Just some random thoughts that I cannot quite make sense of yet.

rs

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Post by Salzie Sachertorte »

I like Satchmo's idea of looking at every building - and open area - to ascertain what its function is and how does it foster the community.

I think we need "gathering space" in various sizes, different venues for different types of activities, which also can serve other purposes when a meeting, concert, event isn't happening. Thus I like Sudane's idea of opening up the Marketplatz - perhaps that could serve as the venue for larger scale activities - concerts, lecutres, festivals, events. Though I don't know about the lag situation, so I don't know if that is feasible.

I like the idea of a ballroom - maybe we could dedicate the empty area below the marketplatz as a sort of covention facility? And use that as a ballroom, concert hall, theater? Maybe design a grand staircase to put up prior to an event - to move people down when an event is happening? Once, again, I don't know about lag, so I don't know if that is feasible.

I believe there is currently only one small unsold lot outside the city walls. Most of the large empty spaces on the Northwest side and the cliffs under the city walls are city prim land.

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Post by Sudane Erato »

I suspect Satchmo's comment regarding the wall was about the old one. The textures of the new one are quite different, and I feel much improved.

I do like Satchmo's comments, in general, tho. I also agree that a thorough review of every functioning build would be a great idea. But, let's not hold up any of the short term changes, such as converting the Platz into a bustling center of activity. A review such as what Satch describes would take our speedy bureaucracy (myself included in that) months! :)

Sudane

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Pelanor Eldrich
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New Media center.

Post by Pelanor Eldrich »

I thought we had one of those outside the walls already, just saying...I think it's owned by a private citizen.

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Post by Dianne »

I also like the idea of a ballroom. The idea of dancing on a big balcony overlooking the city is enchanting. :D

My experience in other sims has been that what is absolutely [b:1mg9k8vv]crucial[/b:1mg9k8vv] is to have an [i:1mg9k8vv]events manager[/i:1mg9k8vv] and to have [i:1mg9k8vv]regular events[/i:1mg9k8vv], [u:1mg9k8vv]weekly[/u:1mg9k8vv] if possible to drum up traffic. This can seem artificial at times, but the minute the events stop, IMO the sim generally dies soon after. Also the presence of events can create traffic on the retail side where none normally exists.

If we don't do something really soon to get things started in the city, we might not have another chance. The addition of Nova Collonia (if it happens), can prop up our traffic numbers for a while, but we have to create a real economy and social life for this place or it will all end rather abruptly somewhere down the road IMO.

The Platz redevelopment can help in that way, but it is already a large open space that has little going on. Merely making it larger will not help. On a practical level, I see a problem in moving back the row of shops to the south as we would have to lower the little hill that the Museum currently sits on to do it and that would adversely affect the Museum. But even if we forget about that, we need to have a good reason for enlarging the Platz and [i:1mg9k8vv]concrete[/i:1mg9k8vv] plans for things to put there.

I would suggest that Rubaiyats coffee shop would be an ideal addition to the Platz as we all stand around and talk there anyway, having a coffee shop there would be a natural. As far as I understand though (and I can't really talk for Rubaiyat), there have been problems getting through all the red tape and discussion to get anything on the Platz at all. Perhaps instead of the auction of those lots (which now has to wait for the new layout plan), we could just prioritise the existing citizens and start [i:1mg9k8vv]concrete[/i:1mg9k8vv] plans for stores, coffee shops and what have you right now. Gwyn is waiting to move there as are others. Let's throw the rules away and just do it!

Another idea is to just set up some gypsy carts, "barrows" or stalls in the Platz owned by the city and rent them out. There are a lot of sellers in SL that only have five or six products and a low prim, low rent cart would be a good fit for some of these. They could be medieval in appearance, although I for one don't see why the products have to be.

Lets not get so hung up on our rules and our theme that we legislate ourselves out of business.

Remember we won't have the "drama-fuel" to keep us going anymore and to keep us in the public eye. :-)

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