Transcript: RA Meeting 01 September 2014 8:30 SLT

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Tor Karlsvalt
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Transcript: RA Meeting 01 September 2014 8:30 SLT

Post by Tor Karlsvalt »

Transcript of the RA meeting of 1 September 2014

RA Members Present: Cadence Theas, LRA; Gwyneth Llewelyn; Rosie Gray and Tor Karlsvalt
Missing: CLEOPATRA Xigalia, who had requested a 7-day vote.
Guest Speaker: Sudane Erato, Treasurer of CDS

Agenda linked here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5427

[08:36:41] Cadence Theas: I would like to welcome everyone to the 6th meeting of the 21st RA. Thank you for being here
[08:36:55] Cadence Theas: Remember to click on the iris box for today's agenda
[08:36:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Michel
[08:37:05] Second Life: Object owned by Cadence Theas gave you 'Agenda 6th meeting of the 21st RA, September 1, 2014' ( Colonia Nova (13,165,41) ).
[08:37:12] Cadence Theas: and to use the Speaker Protocol Roster if you want to speak
[08:37:28] Cadence Theas: Cleo has asked for a 7 day vote which is her right
[08:37:47] Cadence Theas: So, I call this session to order
[08:38:23] Cadence Theas: first item is review and approval of the agenda
[08:38:25] Cadence Theas: is there a motion to approve the agenda?
[08:39:19] Rosie Gray: so moved
[08:39:19] Cadence Theas: second?
[08:39:23] Rosie Gray gives Tor a nudge
[08:39:30] Cadence Theas: I can second it
[08:39:33] Rosie Gray: he must have gone afk for a min
[08:39:37] Cadence Theas: yes
[08:39:51] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[08:39:53] JerryDon Lane entered chat range (12.76 m).
[08:39:53] Cadence Theas: anyway, lets vote
[08:39:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn is online.
[08:39:54] Tor Karlsvalt: secind
[08:39:56] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[08:40:12] Cadence Theas: all approving the agenda say aye
[08:40:15] Rosie Gray: aye
[08:40:16] Bells Semyorka entered chat range (13.48 m).
[08:40:17] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[08:40:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn entered chat range (19.96 m).
[08:40:21] Bells Semyorka left chat range.
[08:40:22] Cadence Theas: aye
[08:40:27] Rosie Gray: oh good here is Gwyn
[08:40:28] Cadence Theas: Hi Gwyn, just it time
[08:40:30] Cadence Theas: :)
[08:40:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi! Sorry!
[08:40:36] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Gwyn
[08:40:42] Bells Semyorka entered chat range (6.61 m).
[08:40:57] Cadence Theas: second item is the review and approval of th August 11 meeting minutes
[08:40:58] Sudane Erato entered chat range (19.13 m).
[08:40:58] Felicia Fortune (FeliciaFortune Resident) entered chat range (19.12 m).
[08:41:03] Cadence Theas: do I here a motion
[08:41:05] Felicia Fortune (FeliciaFortune Resident) left chat range.
[08:41:06] Cadence Theas: hear
[08:41:15] Rosie Gray: we should have the link to the Minutes
[08:41:16] Felicia Fortune (FeliciaFortune Resident) entered chat range (19.92 m).
[08:41:26] Sudane Erato is offline.
[08:41:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just hurried back home — lots of unplanned things popped up — and I need a coffee before discussing anything lol
[08:41:29] Sudane Erato left chat range.
[08:41:32] Cadence Theas: sorry, could you give us that link, Rosie?
[08:41:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I move we approve the minutes for the last meeting.
[08:41:42] Rosie Gray: well it's Tor's Minutes
[08:41:49] Rosie Gray: but I'll find it
[08:41:50] Frankie Palliard entered chat range (6.82 m).
[08:41:58] Cadence Theas: ty
[08:41:59] Frankie Palliard left chat range.
[08:42:08] Frankie Palliard entered chat range (6.16 m).
[08:42:12] Cadence Theas: is there a second to the motion?
[08:42:20] Tor Karlsvalt: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5363
[08:42:24] Cadence Theas: ty Tor
[08:42:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll be happy to second it as soon as I read it briefly lol
[08:42:33] Cadence Theas: :)
[08:42:39] Rosie Gray: second
[08:42:57] Cadence Theas gives Gwyn a minute to read the minutes
[08:43:12] Cadence Theas: is there any discussion?
[08:43:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok! Thanks! I'm fine with it.
[08:43:22] Rosie Gray: no
[08:43:24] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[08:43:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no
[08:43:32] Cadence Theas: ok, lets vote to approve the minutes
[08:43:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[08:43:37] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[08:43:42] Cadence Theas: aye
[08:43:44] Rosie Gray: aye
[08:43:47] Cadence Theas: the motion carries
[08:43:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay \o/
[08:44:03] Cadence Theas: ok, the third item is the continuiation of the executive report
[08:44:23] Cadence Theas: as you know Ceasar attended the last meeting but left early due to a prior rl committment
[08:44:40] Cadence Theas: so I invited him here today to continue the question session that was interrupted
[08:45:06] Cadence Theas: he informed me that he could not attend today, and I am worried that these questions will remain unanswered
[08:45:25] Cadence Theas: my proposal for this item is to list the questions, I will publish them in the RA forum
[08:45:36] Cadence Theas: and Ceasar can answer them at his leisure
[08:45:50] Cadence Theas: Rosie
[08:46:10] Rosie Gray: I would support that, but I'd also like to point something out
[08:46:10] Sudane Erato is online.
[08:46:10] Sudane Erato entered chat range (15.54 m).
[08:46:20] Cadence Theas: please do
[08:46:29] Rosie Gray: at the last meeting, when he was requested to be here to give a report and answer questions
[08:46:49] Rosie Gray: his prepared statement, excluding his name and time stamps and anything extraneous was 2108 words. It took 21 minutes of time.
[08:47:13] Rosie Gray: By contrast, over the 28 minutes of remaining time until he left the meeting, he used 344 words to answer questions (that time includes all of the questions directed to him as well).
He then actually logged off 15 minutes after leaving the meeting.
[08:47:31] Cadence Theas: yes, that is a sizable amount of time for a presentation and very little time for questions
[08:47:45] Michel Manen: He was sick then entire weekend. He would have liked to come... As far as I know ...lol.
[08:47:54] Cadence Theas: but I do t hink that there is an obligation to answer questions from the floor
[08:48:06] Rosie Gray: it was ridiculous, because his statement was prepared, and so long, that nobody could actually read it, absorb it, and have any questions from it.
[08:48:06] Rosie Gray: done
[08:48:35] Cadence Theas: is the RA ok with the idea of making a list of questions to post in the forum for Ceasar to answer also in the forum?
[08:48:39] Cadence Theas: Widget
[08:49:00] Widget Whiteberry: Why 'at his leisure?' Don't we as citizens have the right to hear the responses to our questions in a timely fashion?
[08:49:13] Rosie Gray nods in agreement
[08:49:13] Cadence Theas: sorry, it was just a way of saying it
[08:49:13] Widget Whiteberry: done
[08:49:19] Cadence Theas: let me rephrase it
[08:49:24] Cadence Theas: as quickly as possible
[08:49:31] Rosie Gray: how about with a timeline
[08:49:42] Rosie Gray: a deadline, I mean
[08:49:49] Cadence Theas: it depends I guess on how many questions there are
[08:49:57] Rosie Gray: not really
[08:50:11] Rosie Gray: we can give him 5 days or something like that
[08:50:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker) entered chat range (5.98 m).
[08:50:23] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker) is online.
[08:50:29] Cadence Theas: lets make this into a motion
[08:50:41] Rosie Gray: perhaps Calli has something to add?
[08:50:48] Rosie Gray looks at the talking stick
[08:50:52] Cadence Theas: Calli
[08:50:54] Cadence Theas: sorry
[08:51:53] Callipygian Christensen: thank you - I do not believe that the laws or Constiution say anywhere that the Chancellor must answer questions on the Forum - so if you do this, there may still be no answers forthcoming.
[08:52:00] Leslie Allandale entered chat range (18.95 m).
[08:52:13] Michel Manen: nods
[08:52:33] Cadence Theas: I am suggesting this because it is proving difficult to find a time that he can attend
[08:52:38] Shep (Shep Titian) entered chat range (19.73 m).
[08:52:52] Callipygian Christensen: I do believe that there is a requirement for the Chancellor to appear before RA if given 3 days notice in writing (I can't open a needed pagge to pull up wording at the moment)
[08:53:26] Callipygian Christensen: SO it might be more productive to apply the law.
[08:53:31] Callipygian Christensen: done
[08:53:44] Cadence Theas: For the record, I did tell him more than three days in advance and he informed he could not make it
[08:54:10] Cadence Theas: he only has set hours and days that he can attend
[08:54:24] Cadence Theas: but I have to make sure the RA members schedule fits first
[08:54:30] Cadence Theas: Gwyn
[08:54:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[08:54:52] Cadence Theas: (Calli, Widget, please click on the SPR to remove your names
[08:55:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would echo Calli in here... unless we change the law, the Chancellor is supposed to appear in front of the RA, in 'flesh & bone'
[08:55:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
[08:55:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this executive has a Vice-Chancellor
[08:55:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I would be fine to grant the Vice the right to appear in front of the RA as a replacement
[08:55:48] Soro (Soro Dagostino) entered chat range (19.91 m).
[08:56:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I would not be very happy with a presence in the forums as a 'replacment' for a presence here. I'm sorry. It's just my opinion.
[08:56:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Done. Thanks!
[08:56:15] Cadence Theas: Gauis, then Rosie
[08:57:16] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): I would object to having the Vice Chancellor giving answers on behalf of the Chancellor. Bagheera serves, if my knowledge of the law and constitution is correct, in an extraconstitutional position that was created at whim by the present and past chancellors.
[08:57:57] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): She should not stand to answer questions that are directed at the one and tre chancellor elected by popular sovereignty: she holds no official authority.
[08:57:58] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): Done.
[08:58:00] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Rosie Gray
[08:58:05] Cadence Theas: ty
[08:58:12] Cadence Theas: ROsie, Tor, then Trebor
[08:59:16] Rosie Gray: thank you Gaius, I agree with that, and I think that it undermines the accountability of the office. In addition, Bags has already told us on a couple of occasions that she cannot answer specific questions as they are the prerogative of the Chancellor
[08:59:34] Michel Manen: raises hand
[08:59:53] Rosie Gray: I think that we must direct Ceasar to appear and answer quesitons himself.
[08:59:54] Rosie Gray: done
[08:59:55] Cadence Theas: (Michel, please click on the cylinder on the table)
[08:59:56] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Tor Karlsvalt
[09:00:02] Cadence Theas: Tor
[09:00:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not willing to accept that a chancellor must only send a representative to RA. This seems a bad president. I note that past chancellors have not even thought to avoid RA meetings much less start a president of sending a representative. I feel that for myself and for Trebor, and what I remember of Jamie, attendance by the Chancellor was indeed regular.
[09:00:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree with Gaius.
[09:00:22] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[09:00:26] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Trebor Warcliffe
[09:00:27] Cadence Theas: Trebor
[09:00:32] Trebor Warcliffe: I also object to the "Vice" Chancellor speaking on behalf of the Chancellor. I echo Rosie, Gaius, and Tor.
[09:00:46] Trebor Warcliffe: He stood for election knowing the requirements of the position.
[09:00:56] Rosie Gray nods
[09:01:03] Bells Semyorka nods
[09:01:12] Trebor Warcliffe: If he was not going to be able to fulfill those requirements he shouldn't have ran in the first place.
[09:01:26] Trebor Warcliffe: I would expect this out of ANYONE who stands for office.
[09:01:33] Trebor Warcliffe: Myself included
[09:01:34] Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
[09:01:37] Cadence Theas: ty
[09:01:41] Cadence Theas: Michel
[09:01:54] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Michel Manen
[09:01:56] Michel Manen: I just want to note, regarding the powers of the chancellor to appoint officials, including a Vice Chancellor, that the constitution awards the Chancellor the authority to" to appoint and pay deputies or other staff to hold office in the Office of the Chancellor of CDS to facilitate the discharge of any function of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly;"
[09:02:26] Michel Manen: Dnate Mars appointed the first Vice Chancellor
[09:02:33] Michel Manen: i remember that well ;) smiles
[09:02:41] Michel Manen: done
[09:02:43] Cadence Theas: ty
[09:02:49] Cadence Theas: let me interject something here
[09:03:04] Cadence Theas: I think that there are functions that are not for delegates
[09:03:13] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Gwyneth Llewelyn
[09:03:14] Cadence Theas: and the chancellor has an obligation to the RA
[09:03:17] JerryDon Lane is offline.
[09:03:18] Cadence Theas: Gwyn
[09:03:20] JerryDon Lane left chat range.
[09:03:25] Trebor Warcliffe: And to the citizens
[09:03:29] Cadence Theas: yes
[09:04:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[09:04:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't want to sound too stubborn. I'm not happy about the situation,
either. I would prefer a Chancellor that is able to meet with the RA
regularly — rather, I *insist* that to be the case. It's just that I've
heard that the Chancellor is ill and/or impossible to attend
[09:04:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Knowing how hard it is to find an hour where *I* can attend, too, I can understand that
[09:04:26] Michel Manen: yes he was il the entire weekend
[09:04:32] Michel Manen: as far as i know lol
[09:04:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note: "understand" does not mean "I agree with the excuse". It's just that: compassionate understanding, nothing more.
[09:04:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the ability for the Chancellor to delegate their powers, I'm sorry, I
would ask the SC for an interpretation. Michel is quoting the law as we
intended it back then — e.g. the Chancellor, for instance, often
[09:04:51] Michel Manen: yup
[09:05:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: delegated to the Treasurer the presentation of some thing relatively to the budget
[09:05:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, delegation WAS possible
[09:05:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However taht's MY interpretation
[09:05:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would ask kindly the SC to provide a current interpretation
[09:05:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the SC rules it out, then I withdraw my suggestion altogether
[09:05:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also,
[09:05:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't want to turn this into a 'precedent'
[09:05:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but allow in the circumstance of illness for the Chancellor to delegate owers
[09:06:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *powers
[09:06:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which seems reasonable.
[09:06:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you. Done.
[09:06:11] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Soro Dagostino
[09:06:12] Cadence Theas: Soro
[09:07:10] Soro (Soro Dagostino): WE should remember that when Mr. Manen was last active the Chancellor was not elected.
[09:07:32] Soro (Soro Dagostino): s/he was appointed by the RA.
[09:07:39] Soro (Soro Dagostino): done
[09:07:46] Cadence Theas: Gauis
[09:07:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Point of honour: elected by the RA, acting as a collegiate body on behalf of all citizens.
[09:07:52] Michel Manen: nods
[09:08:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): IS the Chancellor ill? This is the first I have heard of it!
[09:08:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[09:08:56] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): In all procedual democracies I am aware of, there are processes by which a line of powers can take over and assume authority in those situations.
[09:09:13] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): *procedural democracies
[09:09:25] Trebor Warcliffe: I thought we weren't suppose to talk about RL situations in SL. I remember being raked over the coals two years ago for revealing that Ceasar and Cleo were out shopping in RL when he didn't make a meeting.
[09:09:52] Callipygian Christensen looks at the clock and waves her hand
[09:09:59] Cadence Theas: Gaus
[09:10:02] Cadence Theas: are you done?
[09:10:04] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): I do not believe the CDS has a line of powers as most democracies do
[09:10:15] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): Done for time...
[09:10:23] Cadence Theas: Callim then Widget
[09:11:23] Callipygian Christensen: thank you. Gwyn, asking the SC for an opinion adds a few weeks delay to this - and I don't believe the issue here is 'why didn’t Ceasar appear today' - he is ill, he can't..that isn't an issue.
[09:12:02] Callipygian Christensen: But I am sure he will not be ill for the rest of the term (at least I hope not!) so the RA can schedule for him to appear, with 3 days notice - no need for a 'stand in'
[09:12:58] Callipygian Christensen: so..should be possible to have him appear in the near future.
[09:12:59] Callipygian Christensen: done
[09:13:01] Cadence Theas: the problem is is he has given a very narrow range of times when he can make it
[09:13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Calli on the issue, and removes her suggestion. I'm fine with giving the Chancellor 3 days notice. Thanks.
[09:13:21] Cadence Theas: for the record, I have done that
[09:13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[09:13:31] Cadence Theas: at least three days notice
[09:13:49] Cadence Theas: Ok, WIdget, Rosie, Tor, TImlight, then the discussion ends
[09:13:51] Widget Whiteberry: I note the appearance of a pattern of avoidance of accountability to the RA on the part of the Chancellor. Done
[09:14:12] Cadence Theas: Rosie
[09:14:13] Shep (Shep Titian): Hear hear
[09:14:29] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker): clap clap clap
[09:14:36] Bells Semyorka nods
[09:15:05] Cadence Theas: sorry, Calli
[09:15:13] Rosie Gray: I am wondering how we know that Ceasar is ill. Has he given a message to the LRA?
[09:15:13] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Rosie Gray
[09:15:32] Cadence Theas: no, he only said he could not make it that he is working in rl
[09:15:50] Rosie Gray: so it is only hearsay that he is ill
[09:15:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe :)
[09:16:02] Cadence Theas: and that he sent me the times he is available before
[09:16:05] Rosie Gray: and he doesn't provide any flexibility in his available times
[09:16:09] Cadence Theas: no
[09:16:14] Rosie Gray: what times did he say he was available for?
[09:16:22] Cadence Theas: let me llok
[09:16:26] Cadence Theas: hold on
[09:16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Cadence, that would be useful!
[09:16:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for the record I mean.
[09:17:27] Rosie Gray: I think that we all need to be a bit flexible for our available times... I know I make myself available sometimes when it's inconvenient to me, but to make it easier for someone else
[09:17:58] Cadence Theas: I believe it is in my gmail. If the RA is ok with it, I will add it to the minutes after the meeting
[09:18:03] Rosie Gray: and I also agree with Trebor's point that he KNEW the requirements of the position when he ran for office
[09:18:25] Rosie Gray: okay, fine with me. thank you
[09:18:27] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Tor Karlsvalt
[09:18:32] Cadence Theas: Tor
[09:18:44] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope the Chancellor has a quick recovery. And I agree with Gwyn's statements earlier regarding the use of a representative in some circumstances. I would urge the Chancellor in being forth coming in his reasons for not attending. Being up font could avoid a lot of this. Also, I note that Cleo, Ceasar's wife, requested a 7-day vote today. No doubt she is nursing Ceasar back to health. Done
[09:18:59] Cadence Theas: :)
[09:19:01] Cadence Theas: TIm light
[09:19:06] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: TimLight Resident
[09:19:09] TimLight Resident: Hello..
[09:19:24] TimLight Resident: I am new here so please forgive naivety
[09:19:27] Bells Semyorka chuckles
[09:20:12] TimLight Resident: i agree with Rosie's concern about whether we know the Chancellor was ill and suggest that there be some formal mechanism of accountability that comes directly from him/her
[09:20:28] TimLight Resident: It is a waste of time to speculate.
[09:20:52] Tor Karlsvalt nods
[09:21:16] Cadence Theas: are you done TimLight?
[09:21:20] TimLight Resident: Further i believe the Chancellor should offer times which are open to him/her without being asked... as the whole of government depends upon the bent of the administration.
[09:21:31] Lilith Ivory raises hand as she just found "the chancellor’s schedule for RA meeting attendance" - I can post in there if you like
[09:21:47] Cadence Theas: (please do Lilith)
[09:21:50] TimLight Resident: Also, are there alternatives who can pass on specific messages from the chancellor in his/her absence?
[09:21:52] Lilith Ivory: I am available to attend RA meetings around my RL work obligations. I am available at the following times:
Monday through Friday
5am to 6am SLT
6:30 pm to midnight
all day Saturday
Sunday after 11am SLT

I am eager to attend an RA meeting during these times

Ceasar Xigalia
[09:21:56] TimLight Resident: Done and TY
[09:22:11] Lilith Ivory: (soory tim for interrupting
[09:22:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
[09:22:23] Cadence Theas: ok, this ends the discussion.
[09:22:25] JerryDon Lane is online.
[09:22:26] Cadence Theas: The point is is that we are uninformed, and with little opportunity to get questions answered. We are now more than half way and the chancellor has only presented his report twice, and only given us 15 minutes to answer. The choice before us is to accept his delegate, or ask him to answer questions in another venue.
[09:23:19] Cadence Theas: or to be more flexible, but not knowing what he does in rl, or what his flexibility is, that might be harder to insist
[09:23:39] Cadence Theas: Tor,
[09:23:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I just wanted to point out that RA meetings afford an excellent opportunity for the government to be available to the citizens.
[09:23:56] Trebor Warcliffe: Bromo has revealed on the forums what he does in RL.
[09:24:42] Cadence Theas: ok, Gwyn, and then lets make a mtotion
[09:24:49] Tor Karlsvalt: IMO, RA meetings are far better than the wasteful and time consuming Govt Question Hours where sometimes no member of the Exec is present.
[09:24:52] Tor Karlsvalt: don'e
[09:24:54] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[09:25:01] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Gwyneth Llewelyn
[09:25:10] Rosie Gray nods in agreement
[09:25:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Tor
[09:25:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wished to point out that, from my perspective, the Chancellor's free
time to meet with the RA, as posted by Lilith, seem to be more than
reasonable for us to find a free slot (at least for a majority of RA
members). I mean, he's not being unreasonable, is he? Thanks.
[09:25:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Done
[09:25:56] Cadence Theas: ok, ty
[09:26:27] Bagheera Kristan is online.
[09:26:46] Cadence Theas: I would like to make a motion that until such time that the chancellor is able to make a RA meeting, that we strongly suggest that he answer questions that come from the RA in the forum as quickly as possible
[09:27:03] Rosie Gray: and citizens
[09:27:09] Cadence Theas: and citizens
[09:27:11] Cadence Theas: ty Rosie
[09:27:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[09:27:27] Cadence Theas: do I hear a second
[09:27:42] Kellie Wellesley entered chat range (19.20 m).
[09:28:34] Cadence Theas: is there a second?
[09:29:07] Cadence Theas: no. would someone want to suggest a different motion so that we can move on
[09:29:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sorry, Cadence, but I cannot in good conscience second that motion; I'll explain later why.
[09:29:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's why I remained silent :D
[09:29:43] Rosie Gray: I move that we pick a time that Ceasar has indicated he is available for an RA meeting, and direct him to attend it.
[09:29:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Rosie's motion gladly :)
[09:30:04] Tor Karlsvalt: So would I
[09:30:07] Michel Manen: claps
[09:30:09] Trebor Warcliffe: When is the next time according to his availability list will he be available?
[09:30:15] Cadence Theas is dreading what a scheduling nightmare this is going to be
[09:30:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Today at 6:30 OM, Trebor :)
[09:30:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *PM even
[09:30:53] Trebor Warcliffe: Well if he's ill that wont work,
[09:30:53] Cadence Theas: he needs three days notice
[09:30:56] Tor Karlsvalt understands how difficult it is to run a world government. :)
[09:30:57] Lilith Ivory: don´t forget about the three days in advantage :)
[09:30:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Whats the next one?
[09:31:06] Widget Whiteberry: With respect, I'd schedule the Chancellor for every meeting he has indicated he can attend
[09:31:19] Widget Whiteberry: oops, sorry
[09:31:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Thats what Im getting at Widget, ty.
[09:31:23] Rosie Gray: we don't have a regular time though widget
[09:31:40] Bagheera Kristan is offline.
[09:31:42] Cadence Theas: ok,
[09:31:45] Cadence Theas: we have a motion
[09:31:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Seems late at night is the best for most.
[09:31:51] Cadence Theas: that has been seconded
[09:32:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Except Gwyn.
[09:32:02] Cadence Theas: (we can organize the time later)
[09:32:11] Cadence Theas: can we have a vote on the motion
[09:32:22] Tor Karlsvalt shoot no-doze over to Gwyn.
[09:32:23] Rosie Gray nods
[09:32:49] Cadence Theas: ok, those who accept the motion, please say aye
[09:32:54] Rosie Gray: aye
[09:32:54] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[09:32:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[09:33:02] Cadence Theas: the motion carries
[09:33:24] Cadence Theas: next item, are citizen concerns
[09:33:39] Cadence Theas: I open the floor to citizens to express their concerns to the RA
[09:33:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a comment: when scheduling with the Chancellor, please don't worry about my *own* availability, It's far more important that the Chancellor does, indeed, appear at the RA than worrying about one RA member. That's just an opinion. thank you
[09:33:55] Cadence Theas: ok
[09:33:58] Cadence Theas: Trebor
[09:34:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Done
[09:34:26] Cadence Theas: ok, in the interest of moving forward
[09:34:34] Cadence Theas: we have a guest speaker today
[09:34:45] Trebor Warcliffe claps
[09:34:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[09:34:59] Cadence Theas: because of recent questions in the forum, the RA thought it be appropriate to invite Sudane and
[09:35:15] Cadence Theas: explain to us, for the record, how the treasurer works
[09:35:25] Sudane Erato: :)
[09:35:28] Cadence Theas: thank you for coming SUdane
[09:35:31] Cadence Theas: the floor is yours
[09:35:40] Sudane Erato: thx :)
[09:35:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn waves
[09:35:52] Sudane Erato: I thought that since the forum questions
[09:36:12] Sudane Erato: focussed mostly on the procedures by which money is SPENT
[09:36:27] Sudane Erato: other than paying tier to Linden Lab
[09:36:36] Sudane Erato: that I would ficus on that
[09:36:40] Sudane Erato: *focus
[09:37:01] Sudane Erato: how the "Treasurer works" would probably be far too big a topic
[09:37:09] Sudane Erato: for one meeting :)
[09:37:10] Trebor Warcliffe: She works very hard.
[09:37:19] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker) chuckles
[09:37:23] Trebor Warcliffe: hehehe
[09:37:27] Sudane Erato: on the other hand, I am always available fo r questions
[09:37:41] Sudane Erato: about money topis other than expenditures
[09:37:45] Sudane Erato: so....
[09:37:59] Sudane Erato: a half sec while I rez and exhibit
[09:38:12] Sudane Erato: lol... if I'm allowed to :)
[09:38:30] Tor Karlsvalt: :)
[09:39:07] Sudane Erato: i hpe everyone can see that
[09:39:32] Sudane Erato: a long time ago, the RA required a specific monthly accounting of all expenditures
[09:39:37] Sudane Erato: other than tier
[09:39:41] Sudane Erato: so
[09:39:53] Sudane Erato: I set up this shared Google doc
[09:40:03] Sudane Erato: I set up a new one each term
[09:40:14] Sudane Erato: so it doesn't get unwieldy
[09:40:26] Sudane Erato: I share it with the chancellor
[09:40:52] Sudane Erato: and I ask him/her to give me a list of anyone else he/she would like it shared with
[09:41:04] Sudane Erato: the way it works is...
[09:41:16] Sudane Erato: the Chancellor or any of the others
[09:41:24] Sudane Erato: opens this sheet
[09:41:36] Sudane Erato: and fills out 4 simple columns
[09:41:41] Sudane Erato: the date
[09:41:54] Sudane Erato: the description about what the money is for
[09:42:02] Sudane Erato: how much?
[09:42:10] Sudane Erato: and who do I pay it to
[09:42:20] Sudane Erato: then... when I pay it
[09:42:29] Sudane Erato: I fill out the fifth column
[09:42:55] Sudane Erato: once each month, when I do the financial report
[09:43:06] Sudane Erato: I simply insert a shot of thbis screen into the report
[09:43:20] Sudane Erato: in order to comply with the law
[09:43:42] Sudane Erato: every chancellor, and many others here, are familiar with this sheet
[09:43:52] Sudane Erato: its extremely simple
[09:44:13] Sudane Erato: and, I'm not sure, may not even require a gmail account to use
[09:44:29] Sudane Erato: the issue appears to have come up
[09:44:38] Sudane Erato: because for some reason
[09:44:56] Sudane Erato: the current chancellor does not wish to use this system
[09:45:11] Sudane Erato: and has in fact entirely ignores it
[09:45:37] Sudane Erato: so... I asked him to give me the info I need to fill it out
[09:45:50] Sudane Erato: that he has done once or twice
[09:46:10] Sudane Erato: complaining that I am requiring "specific formatting"
[09:46:26] Sudane Erato: but... there's not much formatting here
[09:46:44] Sudane Erato: i just need the 4 pieces of info for each expenditure
[09:46:53] Sudane Erato: and thats it...
[09:47:00] Sudane Erato: questions?
[09:47:08] Cadence Theas: Tor
[09:47:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks
[09:48:15] Tor Karlsvalt: First I have to say this is the system that I used during four terms as Chancellor. It worked very well and I always found Sudan prompt with payments. Indeed, I remember Sudan always prompting me to make sure the sheet was filled out as necessary.
[09:48:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you for making this easy for Chancellors.
[09:49:17] Tor Karlsvalt: I am curious if Ceasar ever expressed a concern about being tracked somehow via google?
[09:49:32] Sudane Erato: not to me
[09:49:45] Sudane Erato: he has never mentioned this sheet to me
[09:50:32] Cadence Theas: Tor, are you done?
[09:50:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I see. I know he was aware of it, as I pointed out this process to him in my notes that I made available when he became chancellor.
[09:50:33] Tor Karlsvalt: done
[09:50:38] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Gwyneth Llewelyn
[09:50:43] Cadence Theas: Gwyn
[09:50:51] Cadence Theas: Please lets try to be brief
[09:50:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will
[09:51:01] Cadence Theas: we still have items on the agenda
[09:51:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, thanks so much for the presentation and all your work. It's amazing to
so many years I never asked you how this is actually done, lol. It seems to
be cleverly done, very simple, absolutely easy to use, and provides full
accountability — it's hard to design anything better, IMHO (I'm no
accountant as you know). So, to be absolutely clear on this. The ONLY reason
given by the Chancellor to you to not use this wonderful system was that he
didn't like the formatting? Why? What kind of formatting would he prefer? Is
there any way the 'formatting', whatever that means, accommodates his
preferences better without breaking the whole system? I would imagine that
this is a far too weak excuse, IMHO, but it's not my point to comment, just
to try to understand...
[09:51:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and done ty)
[09:51:19] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Soro Dagostino
[09:52:05] Sudane Erato: he gave me some expenditure requests missing key info
[09:52:15] Sudane Erato: I listed the info I needed
[09:52:30] Sudane Erato: he finally provided it, and added the complaint
[09:52:55] Sudane Erato: others in the forum keep complaining about my "formatting requirements"
[09:52:59] Sudane Erato: ?????
[09:53:08] Sudane Erato: what formatting requirements
[09:53:15] Sudane Erato: I simply need this info
[09:53:24] Cadence Theas: ok, Soro
[09:53:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* I still don't understand the *reason* for complaining about the formatting. Well, Maybe it's just me. Thanks, Sudane, I'll let others
[09:53:27] Soro (Soro Dagostino): Question . . . are you now able to complete the financial reports in a proper manner?
[09:53:50] Soro (Soro Dagostino): Is the information from the Chancellor proper and correct?
[09:53:56] Kellie Wellesley left chat range.
[09:53:56] Sudane Erato: yes, Soro, because I don't make payments unless I have the needed info
[09:54:03] Soro (Soro Dagostino): k
[09:54:21] Sudane Erato: there has been very few requests for payments from the Chnacellor
[09:54:31] Cadence Theas: ty. Michel
[09:54:43] Michel Manen: Thank you. Is there an Administrative Expenditures Fund for the Executive to use for regular expenditures and account for (using his own format!)? Or are CDS officials expected to pay for items such as entertainment events out of their own pockets and then ask for reimbursement from the Treasurer? Thank you. Done.
[09:55:12] Sudane Erato: it is not essential that officials pay for this out of thier own pockets
[09:55:21] Sudane Erato: as you can see from the sheet
[09:55:25] Trebor Warcliffe: All I ever needed to do was ask Sudane for a set amount of money along with an explanation of what the money would be used for and she sent me the money
[09:55:34] Sudane Erato: there is one field for "who is requesting"
[09:55:39] Trebor Warcliffe: I never payed entertainers out of my pocket.
[09:55:46] Sudane Erato: and another field for "pay to whom"
[09:56:21] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Michel Manen
[09:56:26] Cadence Theas: Rosie
[09:56:34] Rosie Gray: thank you
[09:56:35] Michel Manen: So the Treasurer funds each item if and when asked, and there is no expenditures budget for the Executive, right?
[09:56:37] Trebor Warcliffe: And using Archie I had her give a stipend to Archie in case I needed to purchase assets for the CDS.
[09:56:45] Rosie Gray: oop
[09:57:07] Sudane Erato: The Chancellor presents his/her own budget at the beginning of the term
[09:57:13] Sudane Erato: but you are asking
[09:57:25] Sudane Erato: if there is a cash fund for the Chancellor
[09:57:31] Michel Manen: nods
[09:57:31] Sudane Erato: and there is not
[09:57:44] Michel Manen: thank you. that was my question.
[09:57:51] Cadence Theas: ok, now Rosie
[09:57:55] Rosie Gray: thank you
[09:58:13] Sudane Erato: the chancellor or anyone they designate, if they need a quick payment, can spend it out of their pocket as request that I pay to them
[09:58:19] Cadence Theas: then Calli, Tor, and me
[09:58:42] Rosie Gray: I was just thinking that since Ceasar doesn't understand how to use a simple spreadsheet, that perhaps we should send him for remedial lessons. I would think a high-school course should suffice.
[09:58:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[09:58:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha sorry.
[09:58:58] Tor Karlsvalt: :)
[09:59:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
[09:59:01] Rosie Gray: nor does he seem to understand what 'formatting' means
[09:59:23] Soro (Soro Dagostino): Excuse me please, RL calls.
[09:59:26] Rosie Gray: we could encourage him to use the wiki, or even better would be a high-school text book on basic computer usage
[09:59:28] Rosie Gray: done
[09:59:37] Soro (Soro Dagostino) is offline.
[09:59:40] Soro (Soro Dagostino) left chat range.
[09:59:47] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker) chuckles.
[09:59:54] Cadence Theas: Calli
[09:59:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps and laughs
[10:00:12] Bells Semyorka smiles
[10:00:12] Michel Manen: umm.... he's not here to reply..... ;(
[10:00:33] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Callipygian Christensen
[10:00:51] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[10:01:08] Callipygian Christensen: I have a couple of concerns over this whole issue. First - I don't believe it is appropriate for anyone performing an accounting function to change an accepted practice , of many years, because a user doesn't like it. That is poor accounting practice, and in RL would probably be actionable.
[10:01:26] Callipygian Christensen: Practices are in place to ensure transparent, consistent handling of funds.
[10:01:47] Sudane Erato: yes
[10:01:53] Callipygian Christensen: Secondly, while the Chancellor may not be concerned if payment is delayed because he refuses to follow the established practise, he has in effect made that decision for others also - members of his staff who had no concerns about providing the info needed for them to file for reimbursement.
[10:02:14] Callipygian Christensen: I believe that to be quite unfair to those people.
[10:02:35] Callipygian Christensen: Finally, I don't think it's acceptable for payments to go through a third party - what happens when Sudane pays X, for expenses of Y - then Y claims never to have received them etc? This system is direct, clear, and proven over time.
[10:02:39] Rosie Gray nods
[10:03:22] Callipygian Christensen: Bagheera paying PIO's, while it may be with all good intentions, is not HER responsibility - she is not a check and balance in the accounting system.
[10:03:44] Callipygian Christensen: Done.
[10:03:46] Callipygian Christensen: I think.
[10:03:47] Callipygian Christensen: :)
[10:04:11] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[10:04:19] Sudane Erato: Calli, I am in complete agreement. I think some 3rd party paying is oK... but if it can be more direct, that's better
[10:04:30] Cadence Theas: ty. Tor
[10:04:36] Tor Karlsvalt: It was indeed my practice to pay performers and then request reimbursement. Perhaps this was not the best policy, nor one I would impose on other chancellors. It was just easy for me. I note that I documented the reason for all request on the spreadsheet. I remember there were instances where I requested Sudane to reimburse the performer or presenter. I agree with Calli and that is one reason I liked to pay the performer myself as a matter of course. Imo I had a record and Sudane had a record. I do think the main issue here, given past actions of the chancellor, is that he feels that he should not be bound by the Treasurer's procedure.
[10:04:54] Tor Karlsvalt: It is more about protocol than anything else. Done
[10:05:09] Xuryon (csblmt7 Resident) is offline.
[10:05:12] Cadence Theas: Sudane, I have a question
[10:05:33] Cadence Theas: who guarantees that the expenses fall within the approved budget?
[10:05:59] Sudane Erato: That is up to the judgment of the "Requesting Official"
[10:06:09] Sudane Erato: they are accountable for that
[10:06:14] Cadence Theas: but there is no control over it?
[10:06:19] Sudane Erato: thats why their names is there
[10:06:25] Sudane Erato: not by me
[10:06:35] Cadence Theas: ty
[10:06:37] Cadence Theas: Michel
[10:06:41] Michel Manen: Thank you. I cannot think of any Executive that has to go back to the funds- controlling body on every item of expenditure and has no Official budget to use and account for on a regular basis. But that is a policy decision, not one for the Treasurer. Thank you. Done.
[10:06:42] Sudane Erato: and I would hope you don't add that to my responsibilities :)
[10:06:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmmmmmm ㋡
[10:06:53] Cadence Theas: no :))
[10:07:02] Cadence Theas: but there should be oversight
[10:07:20] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker) whispers: Have to run, laptop is dying.... Valete!
[10:07:27] Michel Manen: Vale!
[10:07:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn waves G goodbye
[10:07:35] Gaius Tiberius Curio (Guillaume Mistwalker) left chat range.
[10:07:36] Tor Karlsvalt wave
[10:07:41] Cadence Theas: Gwyn
[10:07:46] Cadence Theas: and then Trebor
[10:07:49] Sudane Erato: Cadence, the report is published every month, and anyone could be designated to provide oversight using the info in the report
[10:08:08] Cadence Theas: we should consider a procedure
[10:08:23] Cadence Theas: ok, Gwyn
[10:08:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wanted to ask Sudane if there is anything at this stage that she thinks that the RA should decide upon. After all, we are not supposed to interfere with the way the Exec/Treasury work together. But is there anything we ought to do, in your opinion, that would make things easier (I mean legislatively)? Thank you.
[10:08:50] Michel Manen: nods
[10:09:02] Cadence Theas: (good question)
[10:09:06] Sudane Erato: Gwyn, I honestly don't know. This is all executive functions
[10:09:27] Sudane Erato: so I don't know what authority the RA has over this, other than to be informed
[10:09:42] Sudane Erato: the financial accounting remains rigorous
[10:09:51] Sudane Erato: i assure you of that
[10:09:53] Sudane Erato: but
[10:10:03] Sudane Erato: are people being paid who should be paid?
[10:10:09] Sudane Erato: I have no idea
[10:10:15] Cadence Theas: ty
[10:10:25] Cadence Theas: Trebor
[10:10:26] Trebor Warcliffe: There is a procedure. The Chancellor presents a budget. The budget does NOT address a line by line situation. It addresses the budget as a whole. When I was Chancellor I had a budget and I spent the best I could using that budget as a guide. You cant micromanage every expenditure. If you're concerned on what is being spent than read the monthly financial statements and voice your concern.
[10:10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks Sudane
[10:10:58] Trebor Warcliffe: Everything is transparent.
[10:11:19] Bells Semyorka: Have a good day everyone. Thank you for the RA meeting. Fra and I are signing off. Hugs
[10:11:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Even now you can go back to the two terms I was Chancellor and see EVERY SINGLE LINDEN I spent.
[10:11:25] Bells Semyorka is offline.
[10:11:29] Frankie Palliard is offline.
[10:11:29] Bells Semyorka left chat range.
[10:11:32] Frankie Palliard left chat range.
[10:12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Trebor and fully agrees. The RA should not micromanage the Executive; just provide oversight. That's also my opinion.
[10:12:24] Leslie Allandale: I need to leave as well, thanks to the Representatives for keeping the ship afloat.
[10:12:28] Trebor Warcliffe: I think I'm done for now.
[10:12:31] Cadence Theas: Michel, and then we can thank Sudane for her presence today and the information she has provided.
[10:12:33] Leslie Allandale left chat range.
[10:12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: If I have more to contribute I'll do it in the forums.
[10:12:46] Cadence Theas: ty Trebor
[10:12:50] Leslie Allandale is offline.
[10:13:09] Cadence Theas: Michel
[10:13:15] Michel Manen: Thank you. It is not for me to presume to advise the RA on legislation, but the Issue of having an RA -approved cash fund for the executive for which it must be accountable on regular basis could adress both this issue and that of regular Chancellor appearances and accountability to the RA, Thank you. Done.
[10:13:48] Rosie Gray reminds everyone to click the talking stick once they are finished speaking
[10:13:59] Cadence Theas: ty Michel, we can consider this in a future meeting
[10:14:10] Michel Manen: thank you. ;)
[10:14:12] Cadence Theas: ok, Widget and Tor, then we can thank Sudane
[10:14:17] Widget Whiteberry: Are payments authorized by the Chancellor as Sudane has described, a part of the not line by line Chancellor's budget
[10:14:35] Widget Whiteberry: or are they in addition?
[10:14:38] Widget Whiteberry: done
[10:14:57] Sudane Erato: well, as I noted, I don't presume to track compliance with the budget
[10:15:13] Sudane Erato: I simply make the payments requested on this sheet
[10:15:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Its part of the budget.
[10:15:29] Sudane Erato: so whether they track line by line, i don't know
[10:15:41] Cadence Theas: ty, Tor
[10:15:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks
[10:16:07] Widget Whiteberry: hmm should be then ...
[10:16:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I kept more a mental note of how much we were spending per month and stayed with in the budget. Also I referred to Sudane's sheet often as a memory jogger.
[10:16:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Also
[10:16:41] XD-Moderator Speaker List v2.36: Current Speaker is Now: Tor Karlsvalt
[10:16:54] Tor Karlsvalt: I have to say that while chancellor I donated money to CDS in the form of unreimbursed uploads.
[10:17:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure all Chancellor have.
[10:17:07] Tor Karlsvalt: And PIOs.
[10:17:16] Rosie Gray: and EMs
[10:17:34] Cadence Theas: ty Tor
[10:17:35] Cadence Theas: Ok, I want to thank Sudane for coming today and helping us understand the issue, how the payment schedule is made, and what is the current issue.
[10:17:40] Tor Karlsvalt: The amounts seemed small and not worth considering. But I would not hesitate to request reimbursement for this if asked.
[10:17:44] Tor Karlsvalt: thank
[10:18:15] Cadence Theas: and also for her excellent job as treasurer for those of us who are clueless
[10:18:38] Sudane Erato: thank you so much... and please do not, in the future, hesitate to ask me anything about how our finances are done
[10:18:44] Michel Manen: I am sorry. I have been away for so long, so please forgive this question. What are the parameters of the Treasurer's mandate at this point in terms of tenure?
[10:19:03] Cadence Theas: ok, we have two other new business items and the commission reports
[10:19:27] Cadence Theas: two proposals for additional commissions
[10:19:39] Cadence Theas: one to review conflict of interest
[10:19:40] Sudane Erato: my apologies... I must run
[10:19:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Thanks Sudane!)
[10:19:49] Rosie Gray: thanks Sudane!
[10:19:49] Sudane Erato: yw :)
[10:19:57] Cadence Theas: and the other to look at the CDS and LV groups which has been the subject of the forum recentlu
[10:20:01] Sudane Erato left chat range.
[10:20:29] Cadence Theas: is there a motion to form two new commission to reviews conflict of interest
[10:20:40] Cadence Theas: and to review the CDS and LV groups?
[10:20:46] TimLight Resident: Excuse Us, we must leave and am grateful for this interactive governance process...:)
[10:20:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, one motion, or two motions? I'm happy to move either or both :D
[10:20:58] Cadence Theas: ty TimLight for coming
[10:20:59] TimLight Resident left chat range.
[10:21:00] Rosie Gray waves to those leaving
[10:21:04] StarLight (Jasmine Lordenwych) left chat range.
[10:21:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks Tim!
[10:21:47] Rosie Gray: maybe break into two?
[10:21:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway.... let's make it two motions. Motion A: To form a commission to review conflict of interest. Motion B: To form a commission to review the CDS/LV groups.
[10:21:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There :)
[10:21:57] Cadence Theas: fine
[10:22:03] Rosie Gray: I second both the motions
[10:22:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[10:22:10] Cadence Theas: :)
[10:22:11] Tor Karlsvalt: One commission tho right?
[10:22:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, two :D
[10:22:23] Michel Manen: no terms of reference? smiles
[10:22:33] Sudane Erato is offline.
[10:22:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: IMHO they truly address different issues. Should we really join them into a single commision?
[10:22:54] Cadence Theas: Michel, the first issue was the topic of discussion in the first meeting
[10:23:10] Cadence Theas: I said two commissions in the motion
[10:23:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I think they are connected
[10:23:34] Cadence Theas: we spent more than half the meeting arguing about this
[10:23:34] Michel Manen: yes, but we have now two commission without specific terms of reference ;)
[10:23:43] Cadence Theas: we are getting to that
[10:23:45] Rosie Gray: Michel, it is for the RA to debate now
[10:23:59] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact one solution to the issue is to make rezz rights on designated rezz areas part of the Citizen role of the CDS group.
[10:24:18] Michel Manen: oh sorry.
[10:24:27] Cadence Theas: Tor, I don’t think we have time to discuss it today
[10:24:40] Cadence Theas: the issue is if it deserves a commission
[10:24:41] Rosie Gray: indeed!
[10:24:47] Cadence Theas: there is a lot of confusion in the forum
[10:24:51] Tor Karlsvalt: sure, but there might be overlap in the abilities of both groups.
[10:24:56] Cadence Theas: and questions about the management of the citizen lists
[10:25:02] Cadence Theas: and the abilities assigned
[10:25:05] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it should be one commission
[10:25:15] Rosie Gray: sorry but I disagree
[10:25:26] Cadence Theas: I do too
[10:25:42] Cadence Theas: conflict of interest is much broader than group privileges
[10:25:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also disagree, but I'm not adamant about it. It+'s just that I see less points in common.
[10:25:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Cadence
[10:25:58] Rosie Gray nods
[10:26:09] Cadence Theas: so we accept two motions?
[10:26:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's things like... what kind of relationship people should be aware of when running for office. That has little to do with who is in the LV group.
[10:26:27] Pip Torok is online.
[10:26:31] Rosie Gray: indeed
[10:26:51] Michel Manen: nods
[10:26:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I moved two motions and there were two seconds; Tor can move a third motion to join both commissions into a single one.
[10:27:00] Tor Karlsvalt: oh I misread something.
[10:27:03] Cadence Theas: Tor?
[10:27:04] Michel Manen: lol
[10:27:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :-D
[10:27:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[10:27:12] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[10:27:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[10:27:30] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[10:27:30] Cadence Theas: ok, lets add the RA member to lead the commissions to the motions
[10:27:43] Rosie Gray looks at Gwyn
[10:27:47] Cadence Theas: is there a... lol
[10:27:53] Tor Karlsvalt: yes I agree that these should be separate commissions.
[10:28:26] Rosie Gray: I nominate Gwyn to take on one commission, and Cadence to take the other
[10:28:28] Cadence Theas: Gwyn, did you say you were volunteering for one?
[10:28:29] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[10:28:40] Cadence Theas: I can take either one
[10:28:43] Callipygian Christensen waves her hand
[10:28:45] Tor Karlsvalt: :) Sounds like a plan, man
[10:28:49] Cadence Theas: Calli
[10:28:57] Callipygian Christensen: I would suggest that the conflict of interest commission be led by a citizen not holding any office at this time
[10:29:07] Cadence Theas: very good point Calli
[10:29:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh.... good point
[10:29:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed
[10:29:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Can we do that?
[10:29:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it's tricky actually
[10:29:25] Rosie Gray: I thought it had to be an RA member
[10:29:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought so too, but the old procedures I have here do not actually specify it HAS to be an RA member
[10:29:43] Tor Karlsvalt: A co-chair?
[10:29:51] Callipygian Christensen: Since the discussions and any outcomes may be directly applicable to any one of you, removing the perception that a RA member directed the review of their own potential conflicts should be avoided.
[10:30:07] Cadence Theas: I think the point is a valid one
[10:30:12] Rosie Gray nods
[10:30:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* — it makes sense. Hopefully it's also legal — I would have to check what were the last procedures approved
[10:30:18] Callipygian Christensen: It does not have to be a RA member in my memory
[10:30:20] Tor Karlsvalt: How about an RA member as co-chair?
[10:30:33] Callipygian Christensen: Same problem Tor
[10:30:43] Lilith Ivory: there have been commissions chaired by non RA members in the past
[10:30:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedures as approved in 2005.
[10:30:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) Committees.
The LRA can create (or propose for creation) committees of members for the purpose of study and information gathering on proposed topics (bills, agenda items of all sorts). Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions. Committee members can be non-members of the RA. Each topic that a committe receives for attention must be brought back to the RA for action, even if the recommendation is to drop it.
[10:30:55] Trebor Warcliffe: In the past we have had commissions that were led by citizens.
[10:31:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for the spam. As you see, no issue about non-RA members chairing. But these procedures are old and have been revised!
[10:31:26] Cadence Theas: now the question is how is the citizen chair selected?
[10:31:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Ask for volunteers.
[10:31:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:31:43] Callipygian Christensen: Thanks you Gwyn..my memroy was correct :)
[10:31:44] Rosie Gray: perhaps we could call for nominations from the floor
[10:31:49] Cadence Theas: agreed
[10:31:56] Lilith Ivory: sorry, I need to leave, bye All
[10:31:57] Tor Karlsvalt nods at Trebor
[10:32:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or open the call on the forums, to allow for wider participation?
[10:32:07] Lilith Ivory is offline.
[10:32:08] Trebor Warcliffe: Forums
[10:32:09] Trebor Warcliffe: yes
[10:32:13] Lilith Ivory left chat range.
[10:32:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Wider participation.
[10:32:25] Michel Manen: I would voluteer for the conflict of interests commission.
[10:32:31] Cadence Theas: to form the commission and let them decide the leader?
[10:32:33] Tor Karlsvalt: that would be best, we should give people time to see the request.
[10:32:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw I'm fine in chairing the other commision, but you know that I'll hold the meetings at odd times, eg probably in the 2-6 PM slot...
[10:32:51] Callipygian Christensen: The Forums alone dont give you that - an inworld notice should also be used if going the 'invite' route
[10:32:58] Rosie Gray: it's always 3 pm somewhere in the world Gwyn ㋡
[10:33:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, agreed, Calli
[10:33:05] Trebor Warcliffe: 2-6pm SLT is excellent for the US residents
[10:33:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rosie: I meant SLT and you're quite right ㋡
[10:33:28] Cadence Theas: ok, can we have a rewording of the 2 motions
[10:33:39] Cadence Theas: its now 10:30
[10:33:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks
[10:34:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Reworded Motion A: To form a commission to review conflict of interest. Chaired by a non-Government member, to be picked among volunteers, after a call for volunteers on the forums, in-world notices, and other official channels. Chair candidates to be presented and approved by the RA on the next meeting.
[10:35:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *candidates
[10:35:23] Cadence Theas: second?
[10:35:26] Rosie Gray: second that amended motion
[10:35:27] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[10:35:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: goodie
[10:35:39] Cadence Theas: lets bring it to a vote
[10:35:42] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:35:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:35:44] Rosie Gray: aye
[10:35:45] Cadence Theas: aye
[10:35:49] Cadence Theas: motion carries
[10:35:56] Cadence Theas: ok, the second motion
[10:36:01] Cadence Theas: with Gwyn as chair
[10:36:09] Cadence Theas: can you do that one too Gwyn
[10:36:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn is typing
[10:36:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Reworded Motion B: To form a commission to review the CDS/LV groups. Chair to be Gwyneth Llewelyn. Volunteers to be asked on forums, in-world notices, and other appropriate official channels. To make a final proposal in 30 days.
[10:36:51] Cadence Theas: I will send the announcement for the conflict of interest commission out this afternoon
[10:36:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Cadence!
[10:37:04] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[10:37:07] Cadence Theas: any second to the ..
[10:37:09] Cadence Theas: tu
[10:37:12] Cadence Theas: ty
[10:37:17] Cadence Theas: lets take a vote on it
[10:37:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:37:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:37:20] Rosie Gray: aye
[10:37:22] Cadence Theas: aye
[10:37:25] Cadence Theas: the motion carries
[10:37:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: goodie :)
[10:37:35] Cadence Theas: it is now past 10:30
[10:37:43] Cadence Theas: I suggest that we adjourn for today
[10:37:52] Tor Karlsvalt copies all the transcripts
[10:37:54] Rosie Gray: I move that we table the rest of the items
[10:37:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not bad, we did the two motions in 18 minutes hehe
[10:38:01] Cadence Theas: at the next meeting we will invite the chancellor and make sure the commission can make their reports
[10:38:03] Michel Manen: grins
[10:38:10] Pip Torok is offline.
[10:38:16] Cadence Theas: thank you all for attending
[10:38:24] Cadence Theas: and being a part of this democracy in action :)
[10:38:26] Michel Manen: thank you for very constructive session
[10:38:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to adjourn and to invite the chancellor for the next meeting & get further commission reports
[10:38:32] Cadence Theas: is there a motion to adjourm?
[10:38:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[10:38:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought you already moved one, Cadence :) hehe
[10:38:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rewords herself … motion to adjourn and to invite the chancellor for the next meeting & get further commission reports
[10:38:56] Tor Karlsvalt: We could add unless there is an objection.....
[10:39:00] Cadence Theas: lol
[10:39:00] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[10:39:07] Cadence Theas: all in favor?
[10:39:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:39:11] Rosie Gray: aye
[10:39:11] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:39:13] Cadence Theas: aye
[10:39:18] Cadence Theas: thank you again everyone
[10:39:30] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫

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