Meeting on 2006-11-26
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Patroklus Murakami: k, everybody/ pls touch the recorder and we'll begin
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: first of all, a reminder of the agenda i posted on the forums
Rubaiyat Shatner has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: 1. Clarify the purpose of the group (20 mins)
Patroklus Murakami: 2. Identify the main issues we want to tackle and brainstorm solutions (30 mins)
Patroklus Murakami: 3. Agree actions (10 mins)
Patroklus Murakami: 4. Date, time of next meeting (10 mins)
Patroklus Murakami: does that sound ok with everybody?
Brian Livingston: ergh, did everyone else get booted off for soem kind of region reset?
Sudane Erato: yes!
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Chicago Kipling: THat's fine with me.
Patroklus Murakami: we didnt' get booted brian
Sudane Erato: no, just you
Brian Livingston: Hrmm, odd
Patroklus Murakami: well, can i say a few words about why i think this gp is needed?
Sudane Erato: great
Patroklus Murakami: i had been planning to set up a gp like this for a while
Patroklus Murakami: and the discussio about moving teh telehub prompted me into action
Patroklus Murakami: i think there are issues where all of teh NFS (and CN eventually) Traders have a common interest
Patroklus Murakami: in RL there are associations for this purpose
Sudane Erato: yes!
Patroklus Murakami: i think that we have enough interests in common to find something useful from such an organisation
Patroklus Murakami: particularly as the ongoing forum discussion identified the lack of traffic and therefore sales in teh sim
Patroklus Murakami: i think that it is *primaril* our job, the traders job, to put that right
Patroklus Murakami: enough from me, what do u all think?
Sudane Erato: i'd like to say that this has been an idea that i've been in favor of for a long time
Chicago Kipling: I was glad to hear you propose this. I've talked with Gwyneth about the need for such a group, but I have lest vested interest or background.
Sudane Erato: and I thank
Sudane Erato: you for getting it started
Brian Livingston: I had a similar idea aroudn the time the CN began t have its first residents move in. It seemed that a group like this was lacking in the CDS, but I never got the time to do the legwork on forming it or draftign any materials
Patroklus Murakami: well, let's think about what we want from such a group. what shd the traders association do?
Brian Livingston: By working togeather, the various businesses in the CDS can easily help draw in more people and benefit all of us
Sudane Erato: advocate the businesses
Patroklus Murakami: (and what should it *not* do:))
Brian Livingston: Coordinate advertising campaigns
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling: Yes, I think such a group can promote a more comprehensive strategy for moving traffic.
Brian Livingston: Beat baby seals?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: hehe
Chicago Kipling: It can provide some energy for events that will attract people
Patroklus Murakami: should or should not
Chicago Kipling: Ha
Sudane Erato: lol
Brian Livingston: Should not :p Although perhaps if we all work on a menacing laugh, it might help us in the long run
Sudane Erato: yes... promotion...
Brian Livingston: Bwahahahahahahaa
Sudane Erato: and events
Brian Livingston pipes down
Sudane Erato: whew!
Patroklus Murakami: so, i'm hearing business advocacy, promotion and events promotion
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling: I think it can also provide services to businesses still setting up...
Sudane Erato: advocate legislation that benefits business
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: services... supplies
Chicago Kipling: free themed items so that our shops don't have huge empty spaces for months at a time
Patroklus Murakami: how about lobbying? if the telehub proposal were to become serious I'd want to lobby against the change (probalby). shds we have a lobbying role?
Sudane Erato: some kind of co-op promotion
Rubaiyat Shatner: Sudane, I am not certain that advocacy of legislation is necessary
Sudane Erato: yes... lobbying in the sense of promoting legislation
Chicago Kipling: Perhaps even some suggested promotion and location set-up strategies
Sudane Erato: well, the telehub change
Rubaiyat Shatner: also lobbying seem to be handleable on a one on one basis
Sudane Erato: would have a real impact
Rubaiyat Shatner: or one to many
Sudane Erato: "yes they are!"
Patroklus Murakami: i mention lobbying because i can see it beign possible that we might develop a 'business view' that we would want to present to the government
Patroklus Murakami: as in RL
Sudane Erato: i tend to agree with that
Sudane Erato: "taxation" basis, for example
Sudane Erato: when I first came, there was much talk of a sales tax
Rubaiyat Shatner: my point is that the present government is in touch with the people
Sudane Erato: fortunately, that was ended
Chicago Kipling: Lobbying is valuable. I do think though that this group really needs to focus on the practical lest we become one more interest group or group that has little to show for its existence.
Rubaiyat Shatner: I am thinking it would become a distraction
Patroklus Murakami: oh yes, i recall hearing about the sales tax idea. rubaiyat, do you worry that a lobbying role woudl be counter productive?
Rubaiyat Shatner: woah, words getting lost here
Sudane Erato: well, those are good points
Sudane Erato: yes
Rubaiyat Shatner: yes, if the goal is traffic
Rubaiyat Shatner: lobbying becomes a distraction
Chicago Kipling: Part of our traffice problem is that a number of shops are in poor form right now and our existing institutions are a bit too quiet.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: thats true
Rubaiyat Shatner: my words are returning from the void
Sudane Erato:
Sudane Erato: we may be getting them before you do
Patroklus Murakami: well, i definitely think we are all too RA-focussed in the CDS so we shd keep tot the practicalities
Chicago Kipling: I think we are
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling: RE Brian's words
Brian Livingston: Hmm?
Chicago Kipling: I meant that my comment was directed at us receiving someone's words before they did. I guess it was Rubaiyat
Brian Livingston is convinced doing this meeting by carrier pidgeon might be quicker than wading through all of this lag :p
Chicago Kipling: Ha
Sudane Erato:
Patroklus Murakami: lol brian
Chicago Kipling: I'm not experiencing much of a problem
Patroklus Murakami: moon, trying to get here but can't tp
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Brian Livingston: I see wings and shoes
Moon Adamant: hello all
Patroklus Murakami: well, to summarise
Rubaiyat Shatner: Mooo Hooo Ha Ha Ha
Sudane Erato: hi!
Patroklus Murakami: hi moon, u made it
Moon Adamant: hi hi
Chicago Kipling: Hi Moon
Rubaiyat Shatner: Hi Moon
Patroklus Murakami: moon, we're just winding up the initial discussion on remit
Patroklus Murakami: to summarise
Moon Adamant: ok, thanks
Patroklus Murakami: there seems to be a strong consensus on business promotion, advocacy and providind services of use to CDS businesses
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling: Yes
Patroklus Murakami: there is some disagreement over lobbying activiities, to what extent these are necessary or might be a distraction.
Moon Adamant nods
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we continue that part of the discussion on the forums and proceed with waht everyone agrees we need. oK?
Chicago Kipling: I agree
Sudane Erato: great!
Brian Livingston: Indeed
Rubaiyat Shatner: hai
Patroklus Murakami: so let's move on to item 2. what problems do we want to sovle?
Sudane Erato: traffic
Rubaiyat Shatner: traffic
Brian Livingston: and traffic
Sudane Erato: hehe
Patroklus Murakami: 2. Identify the main issues we want to tackle and brainstorm solutions (30 mins)
Chicago Kipling: I would love to help current businesses in Neuf ready themselves for our official CN openning.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston: ACK!
Brian Livingston: Sorry, moon just appeared out of nowhere
Brian Livingston grins sheepishly
Chicago Kipling: At the every least offering whatever help coudl be offered so that all the shops at least were in proper place would be good
Moon Adamant: lol
Chicago Kipling: Moon is scary
Patroklus Murakami: who currently has shops in CN (no, she's not really )
Sudane Erato:
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, who?
Chicago Kipling: Well part of that would be me getting off my bottom and getting the community store finished.
Sudane Erato: only Chicago
Patroklus Murakami: aah!
Sudane Erato: plus others who are not here
Patroklus Murakami: i musso that's two issues
Patroklus Murakami: any more
Sudane Erato: ?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, that's two issues. any more?
Patroklus Murakami: let's take them in order
Sudane Erato: well, holding events that attract people
Chicago Kipling: Working with Nightwind to help get city promotion in gear?
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: let's focus on improving traffic to NFS first and then move on to the CN opeining
Chicago Kipling: In particular preparing for Christmas and the CN openning
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling: In this conversation or in general?
Moon Adamant: the Xmas event is fundamental i think
Patroklus Murakami: in this discussion. i'm not suggesting we leave CN for another time
Moon Adamant: because it is already a tradition of NFS
Patroklus Murakami: one quick way we could drive up traffic might be to advertise. i have a weekly classified, if everyone did that we might get traffic from each others stores as ppl tp in to visit one place and go to the others. thoughts?
Sudane Erato: i have a classified too....
Sudane Erato: we should perhaps propose a standard format
Rubaiyat Shatner: I use MM
Brian Livingston: Iwas thinking, when I was brainstormign weeks ago, of having a merchant association that had a subscription fee of some sort that would be used to fund regualr advertisements in key publications
Sudane Erato: so there's a strong identification with the sim... NFS
Brian Livingston: With enough members, the cost shouldn't be too excessive
Sudane Erato: yes... we're going to have to deal with a budget
Chicago Kipling: I agree with Sudane that a common branding would be good
Brian Livingston: something like 200L a month or whatnot
Patroklus Murakami: well, we couild investigate teh costs of advertising in MM (and other places )regularly
Moon Adamant: yes, i agree with sudane on that as well
Patroklus Murakami: then we would be selling the marketplatz itself as well as the businesses located there (and elsewhere?)
Sudane Erato: yes...
Chicago Kipling: That common branding is more important in my mind that combined advertising at first
Chicago Kipling: It will help us put together a strong motivation to come in the first place
Patroklus Murakami: so, we're going to need a budget and some discussion of fees (and a treasurer)
Sudane Erato: well, Brian has great data on ad possibilities
Sudane Erato: his promo work on CN has been great!
Moon Adamant: indeed it has!
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i noticed the banner ads on snapzilla i think and went 'wow, that's us!'
Brian Livingston: Hehe, thanks
Rubaiyat Shatner: yeah, me too, how much did that cost?
Sudane Erato: I haven't paid for that!!??
Sudane Erato: hehe
Brian Livingston: Ummm, because CN is a new advertiser, we got 4 weeks at hte price of 2, andi think it was... hmm
Brian Livingston: 2750?
Sudane Erato: oh!
Patroklus Murakami: wow, that's good
Brian Livingston: No, closer to 4k
Brian Livingston: 2750 was the full page ad in SL Business
Rubaiyat Shatner: ahh
Brian Livingston: But still, Snapzilla ads are really reasonable for the impact they have
Patroklus Murakami: k, when we discuss actions later, we'll need a volunteer to take this fwd. oh, we lost moon
Brian Livingston: I don't mind coming up with a few ad images for the platz's winter campaign if you want me to do so for the next meeting
Sudane Erato: great!
Brian Livingston: I'll just need some ideas on the scope of the ads and I can run from there
Patroklus Murakami: shall we talk about events? and xmas in particular? that wd be gr8 brian
Chicago Kipling: Perhaps part of such an image could be made a part of all our ad images?
Sudane Erato: yes,,, or some kind of frame into which we put our own business images
Sudane Erato: like for our classifieds
Brian Livingston: I think we need a logo, something that we can a) use to identify ourselves to outsiders as a symbol of quality and b) to further createa a cohesive group
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: agreed
Chicago Kipling: It would also be good if it had connections to existing symbols
Brian Livingston: Ooh, which brigns me to a point: should there be a code of ethics that memebers of the CDS traders assoc. hold themselve to and subscribe to?
Chicago Kipling: And perhaps a complimentary theme across the sims
Sudane Erato:
Brian Livingston: So that shoppers know that we stand behind our goods and are fair and equitable?
Brian Livingston: Not that we aren't or anything :p
Sudane Erato: hehe
Chicago Kipling: Well it could reference our use of the new judiciary and some agreed on refund model or plan.
Patroklus Murakami: i think that ultimately a code of ethics wd be good. but remember that consumers already have the backing of our inworld court system perhaps the code of ehtics can come later? (after we're all rich from increased traffic)
Sudane Erato: I think all businesses in NFS/CN should be required to subscribe to those
Sudane Erato: yes
Chicago Kipling: I'm not so sure about making it compulsory
Sudane Erato: well, if you're located here...
Chicago Kipling: I think a Traders Association seal would be more effetive
Patroklus Murakami: wd be fine if it were simple, but i can see it being difficult to write
Sudane Erato: you should subscribe to these standards
Brian Livingston: But to display the seal, you need to affirm that you are operating on the level
Chicago Kipling: I agree Brian
Brian Livingston: It could likely be written in under 10 lines
Chicago Kipling: I have about three minutes I'm afraid.
Patroklus Murakami: well that sounds simple enough. let's draft something to talk about.
Brian Livingston: As a member fo the CDS Traders I affirm to treat everyone fairly, maitain busienss integrity, and provide quality products and serices
Brian Livingston: THat is super simplified
Brian Livingston: but really, it'sthe points that simply need to be hit in such an agrement
Brian Livingston: or pledge
Patroklus Murakami: chicago, i'll post a transcript along with actions on the forums... os u can see what u've been volunteered for!
Chicago Kipling: ha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Chicago Kipling: Well if I can actually get down with my city store stuff I promised a while back that will be a miracle of its own
Sudane Erato:
Patroklus Murakami: do u have time to quickly discss CN isses befor u go chicago?
Chicago Kipling: Seriously though I think I"m close to a basic solution
Chicago Kipling: Yes
Patroklus Murakami: pls go aheead
Chicago Kipling: Right now I think we're still in the sales stage. So presentation, full existing shops and events are key
Chicago Kipling: I'm offering a free listing of locations and businesses that anyone can be added to for free
Sudane Erato: a listing where?
Brian Livingston: Chicgao, what if we had a dispensor for those listigns available for shop owners to post in their shops
Chicago Kipling: It's part of the city guides I post that you can buy for zero dollars
Chicago Kipling: I don't like the system yet, but it sort of works
Sudane Erato: ahh... great
Chicago Kipling: Anyone can copy it at any time.
Chicago Kipling: And yes, I"d be open for redistribution elsewhere if we could work out easy updating of versions
Patroklus Murakami: is the current problem that there aren't enuf businesses opening in CN? in order for there to be a 'buzz' around the place?
Sudane Erato: there are a good number
Sudane Erato: probably almost half
Sudane Erato: so, that should be sufficient
Sudane Erato: if the shop owners are active
Chicago Kipling: I think its the common problem of time. many are still building or seting up
Patroklus Murakami: i see
Brian Livingston is quite guilty of that :p
Chicago Kipling: But yes there are many for sale banners yet
Chicago Kipling: Ha
Sudane Erato: yes, true
Sudane Erato: but...
Sudane Erato: there are many sold
Brian Livingston: Then again, ther eare a lot of plots, more than in NFS I'd be willing to bet
Brian Livingston: I coukld be wrong though
Chicago Kipling: Sadly my time is more than up. Volunteer me away
Sudane Erato: hehe...
Brian Livingston: Okee, gladly
Patroklus Murakami: ok, thanks for coming chicago
Sudane Erato: yes!... thx!
Chicago Kipling: Thanks for doing this Pat. I'm excited we're moving in this direction.
Brian Livingston: See you around Chicago
Patroklus Murakami: np, i'm glad this is off the ground now
Chicago Kipling: Now I feel the lag
Patroklus Murakami: i need to leave at half past the hour as well
Brian Livingston: K
Patroklus Murakami: shall we spend ten more mins on 'issues' and then agree actions and date of next meeting?
Sudane Erato: sure
Rubaiyat Shatner: I have to go now as well, ttfn
Patroklus Murakami: k, bye rubaiyat. glad u cd make it
Sudane Erato: yes...
Rubaiyat Shatner: good to see you all
Sudane Erato: see you soon
Sudane Erato:
Sudane Erato: well
Patroklus Murakami: the xmas event was mentioned as key. but is it really for us to organise? how can we make sure xmas happens?
Sudane Erato: *sigh*... I wish I knew
Sudane Erato: we need an event organizer
Sudane Erato: its a special skill and energy
Patroklus Murakami: well, it's a problem
Brian Livingston: Indeed
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami: do u think a 'xmas planning cttee\ might work? like the sim planning cttee?
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: but a bit short notice
Patroklus Murakami: it's too much for one person. bu why not share the load?
Sudane Erato: well..
Sudane Erato: a dictator is often more efficient than a committee
Brian Livingston: True, but then there is the definite possibility of key items falling through, so its something that would need a strong leader to keep everything on track ofr arrange substitutions if something can't be done
Patroklus Murakami: hehe, v true
Sudane Erato: yes
Brian Livingston: Last thing we want is a gorgeous platz with 40 people in it and no decorations or music :p
Patroklus Murakami: i see no volunteer for this so.... i'm not sure it's gonna happen!
Sudane Erato: yes, well there won't be 40 people even
