Altenburg?

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Diderot Mirabeau
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Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

[quote="Kendra Bancroft":35dy6w6s]I'd like to remind you all that the name "Altenburg" is owned exclusively by me, Kendra Bancroft, and is part of the "Altenburg Gruppe" which is a an agency I use to build historical builds for people on commission.[/quote:35dy6w6s]
Happy new year to you too, Kendra.

As Ulrika [url=http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.p ... 4:35dy6w6s]pointed out to you[/url:35dy6w6s] over 8 months ago the name "Altenburg" is hardly original and actually refers to an RL geographical location. Maybe you should take your beef to the [url=http://altenburg.eu/sixcms/detail.php?_ ... e:35dy6w6s]Germans[/url:35dy6w6s], who used the name for around 1100 years before you had the idea for the name?

I believe I can take advantage of my freedom of expression to refer to the undeveloped area in Neufreistadt as Altenburg as I like.

However, if your concern is that confusion will arise among SL residents of the relationship between your private enterprise and a part of Neufreistadt I believe you can rest assured that the name will not be used to refer to whatever ends up being erected in the area. It appears to me that the sentiment among those of us, who remember the history of the city from when "Altenburg" was still a meaningful reference to a place within the walls prefer to put that part of our history behind us.

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Fernando Book
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Post by Fernando Book »

And not only the Germans: there are also Altenburgs in Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Hungary and Missouri. Or, at least, the [url=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altenburg_ ... 9:1ren9e3s]Wikipedia[/url:1ren9e3s]says that in the disambiguation page for Altenburg in the German version. There are also nine buildings (among them, two Schlosses) that carry the name of Altenburg.

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Ashcroft Burnham
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Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

I see that it is not just for me that the incivility is reserved: it seems to be anyone who disagrees, or has disagreed in the past, with certain people.

What was wrong with my approach of politely asking Kendra for some more detail about the legal basis for her claim? I certainly don't know one way or the other at this stage whether she is right or not (as I wrote, I am not an IP expert). It would be helpful to have more information to evaluate the claim before deciding what, if anything, to do about it. Even if somebody has a definitive answer already, there is no need to be so uncivil about it.

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Post by Flyingroc Chung »

maybe everyone should stop posting until the hangover wears off. ;)

Diderot Mirabeau
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Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

[quote="Ashcroft Burnham":1hwa6i2p]It would be helpful to have more information to evaluate the claim before deciding what, if anything, to do about it.[/quote:1hwa6i2p]
Are you implying that it should be considered whether I should stop using the word "Altenburg" in my conversations with people over how to develop the unused land in Neufreistadt?

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Post by Sleazy_Writer »

The eternal hangover of Neu[censored]burg it's history?

:D

Happy new year to everybody! (even her excellency KB)

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Post by Sleazy_Writer »

If you don't do that, Diderot, Terrible Things could happen to you.

:wink:

Diderot Mirabeau
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Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

[quote="TOPGenosse":x4ze73c6]If you don't do that, Diderot, Terrible Things could happen to you.[/quote:x4ze73c6]
Actually, I'd been looking frantically for a reason for all that lag. You may just have found it! It's The Curse of the Mummy (tm)!

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Ashcroft Burnham
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Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Diderot Mirabeau":2kyc0g6i]Are you implying that it should be considered whether I should stop using the word "Altenburg" in my conversations with people over how to develop the unused land in Neufreistadt?[/quote:2kyc0g6i]

As far as I understand it, Kendra's objection, whether well-founded or not, is to the official attribution of the name to the area, of which your use of it in conversation is evidence.

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Post by Kendra Bancroft »

Nothing "legally" prevents your use of the term Altenburg, and I'm not implying I would pursue any action if you did.

I would have thought out of social niceties, however, you might pick a different name.

But whatever --go ahead and use Altenburg if you like -- It certainly will show me what kind of City you are.

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Post by Ashcroft Burnham »

[quote="Kendra Bancroft":1slh8pxb]Nothing "legally" prevents your use of the term Altenburg, and I'm not implying I would pursue any action if you did.

I would have thought out of social niceties, however, you might pick a different name.

But whatever --go ahead and use Altenburg if you like -- It certainly will show me what kind of City you are.[/quote:1slh8pxb]

Ahh, thank you for clarifying; your use of the word "owned" seemed to imply that you were making a legal claim (an error that it seems that several people made) :-)

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Post by Kendra Bancroft »

[quote="Ashcroft Burnham":3hxq6uzm][quote="Kendra Bancroft":3hxq6uzm]Nothing "legally" prevents your use of the term Altenburg, and I'm not implying I would pursue any action if you did.

I would have thought out of social niceties, however, you might pick a different name.

But whatever --go ahead and use Altenburg if you like -- It certainly will show me what kind of City you are.[/quote:3hxq6uzm]

Ahh, thank you for clarifying; your use of the word "owned" seemed to imply that you were making a legal claim (an error that it seems that several people made) :-)[/quote:3hxq6uzm]

My only point was that "Altenburg" was developed as private enterprise by me, and on privately deeded land of my own.

Yes, legally --nothing could possibly stop you from using the name, except perhaps professional courtesy.

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Post by Beathan »

Kendra --

I think that the most favored redevelopment plan is to create several residential lots from the space previously called "Altenburg". This will likely change the name of the area as a practical matter -- as residential properties are traditionally known by number and street name. I think we are referring to the space as "Altenburg" as a matter of geographic convenience, rather than from any desire to keep and use the name. Given that the area was historically called Altenburg, it would be inconvenient to refer to it otherwise.

Perhaps we can take a page from Prince's playbook and call it, "the future residential area previously known as Altenburg".

With regard to civility or professional courtesy -- many of us don't respond well to threats, and we see claims of "private ownership" of a name to be tantamount to a trademark claim. It certainly uses the language of trademark litigation. Thank you for clarifying that you are not claiming trademark rights in the name or threatening us with legal process.

Beathan

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Sleazy_Writer
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Post by Sleazy_Writer »

By the way, Kendra,

are you the one who designed the 'Fette Henne' in the Rathaus?
It's great! :-)

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Post by Kendra Bancroft »

[quote="Beathan":39909dob]Kendra --

I think that the most favored redevelopment plan is to create several residential lots from the space previously called "Altenburg". This will likely change the name of the area as a practical matter -- as residential properties are traditionally known by number and street name. I think we are referring to the space as "Altenburg" as a matter of geographic convenience, rather than from any desire to keep and use the name. Given that the area was historically called Altenburg, it would be inconvenient to refer to it otherwise.

Perhaps we can take a page from Prince's playbook and call it, "the future residential area previously known as Altenburg".

With regard to civility or professional courtesy -- many of us don't respond well to threats, and we see claims of "private ownership" of a name to be tantamount to a trademark claim. It certainly uses the language of trademark litigation. Thank you for clarifying that you are not claiming trademark rights in the name or threatening us with legal process.

Beathan[/quote:39909dob]

I suppose my confusion comes from this post as to your intents.

[quote="Diderot Mirabeau":39909dob][quote="Aliasi Stonebender":39909dob]Well, Altenburg is the simpler task ... when you get down to it; there's no reason it could not be simply reparceled.[/quote:39909dob]
Definitely true! However since the NFS sim is already generating a revenue, since there's no reason to saw off the branch we're sitting on in terms of wanting to address demand by expanding to a third sim asap and finally since little, low-prim, foggy parcels does not seem to be on a par with the latest state of the art in housing (we can't even offer the tenants prim lots since to my knowledge there is only one left - the P280-19) wouldn't it be a good idea to consider the Altenburg re-development as an opportunity to re-vitalise our community through the creative use of land?

Here's a few ideas to toss around:
1) Tie the plot in with the ideas advanced by Jon, Moon and Beathan regarding a New Guild that could offer guest residence for talented but unendowed builders/artists. Possibly the Altenburg lot could be made into some sort of Artist's retreat.

2) Alternatively, we could make the Altenburg lot a huge builder's playground - although the NFS School already has some skyboxes and there's the big hall beneath the Marktplatz perhaps Altenburg has more merit as a sort of living laboratory where builder's works can be put on exhibit / tried out for a limited period.

3) We could turn the old Altenburg into a huge city park with recreative functions utilising the best of our builders' landscaping talents. The park function could be coupled with recreative activities and artistic displays.

4) A sort of fairground attraction? Bumper cars? Carousels? Shooting gallery? Theatre? Concert venue? Ice skating rink?

5) Guildhall?

I note that #2 and #3 have the benefit of possibly accommodating and transforming between #1 and #4 with a built in dynamic component that might well be the factor that brings builders and citizens at large together in enjoyment of the "Park Altenburg".

As for the Schloß I'm personally inclined to have it demolished in one huge explosion, which could possibly become an attraction in itself. We cound then suitably replace it with an Opera House. a waterfall or something of equally impressive magnitude.[/quote:39909dob]

A "Park Altenburg" with a Carousel, Ice Skating Rink and bumper cars which is an artist's retreat?

Sounds awfully close to Port Neualtenburg which has all these elements to it, and is a success by my standards --even if it it is not percieved as such by you and other's in your community.

Port Neualtenburg has launched several otherwise ignored artists onto the SL scene while gtenerating it's tier through sales every single month since it's inception.

It's size more than doubles the original Anzere project and it is a highly beeautiful and regularly complimented Sim.

Certainly nothing I am doing is original. Many European Citys have all these elements to it.

I also recall, when I left, being given assurances of hand-shake nature, a gentleman's accord --that the name Altenburg was recognized as being part of Kendra Bancroft's experience in SL.

Why my reminder and request that the name "Altenburg" not be used is met with such contempt and vitriol is beyond me, as I thought we had long ago passed such ugliness.

Go ahead . Use the name if you like, I own it's soul.

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