New Guild group?

[Dianne]

Since in these early stages of the foundation of our government system we still seem to be 'bit in the bum" a lot (can I say that here? ) by situations we never anticipated, I am making an effort to think about possible scenarios surrounding the next elections.

One thing that occurs is that after the results are in and because of the various prohibitions on members from one branch of government not being able to be voting members of others, a certain amount of post election "jockying" goes on.

To that end is there any way we can straighten out the Guild group situation before the next election? I am thinking mostly here of the fact that if we needed to do a guild election, at present we would have to include Kendra and Ulrika since they are officers of that group.

Also we are going to be doing a lot of building very soon, is the "land management group" already the official new guild group? Or perhaps we should have a new group for builds as opposed to land? I just want a clarification I guess and like many people, being full-up on groups I want to know which one I can leave and which one I should stay in.

[Aliasi Stonebender]

[quote="Dianne":3b3cgjfl]
To that end is there any way we can straighten out the Guild group situation before the next election? I am thinking mostly here of the fact that if we needed to do a guild election, at present we would have to include Kendra and Ulrika since they are officers of that group.
[/quote:3b3cgjfl]

They are officers of the Second Life group that was made for purposes of communication within the Guild, but that group is not, in my view, "the Guild", any more than a mailing list every senator in the American Congress belongs to is the Senate.

Since they are not currently citizens of the city, they could hardly be included in a governmental institution of that city.

[Dianne]

Okay, dragging this idea up again....

Kendra booted me out of die Guild group and I am assuming she did the same to everyone else? So we all have a free group right now and it's an ideal time to create a new one, no?

Also, since I quit the Mentors and the Greeters for the first time in a long time I have multiple groups free. What does anyone think of me starting some other groups related to our purposes just to reserve the titles and stop "group squatting."

We should have a "Freistadt" group shouldn't we? That can hopefully (with the new tools), encompass all our needs down the road? Alternatively, should we have a group for each branch of government? And what about Collonia Nova?

What groups do people think we actually need?

[Flyingroc Chung]

I met Salzie last night, and she was creating groups for Neufreistadt as well as CDS, I think.

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

Indeed, she was creating most of the groups...

[Salzie Sachertorte]

Hi - I have created groups for Neufreistadt, Colonia Nova and C.D.S. - had to have the periods as CDS was too short and Confederation of Democratic Simulators was too long. Claude & Pel joined as members to keep the groups open.

I think we'll need to sort ourselves out as to which group names to use for what as everyone seems to be up to their own limits with group membership.

I'm sure Sudane will chime in as to where things stand from her end, but I understand she's rather tied up with RL these days.

[Sudane Erato]

Yes, thx Salzie! RL has hit me head on today... I haven't even been able to get near my usual computers! Unfortunately, I'll be a bit chaotic for the next few weeks while I get my RL company sorted out.

But, it is almost 7 PM here in NY, after business hours, so I have some time.

I feel there are several catagories of groups. The most clearly defined are the factions, in which you have to belong to the faction group to be a member.

Another clearly defined group, (which has actually become 2 now) is the Land Management group. This replaces the Neualtenburg Raumnutzung. For those who have asked... yes... please "Leave" the Neualtenburg Raumnutzung. If your activities include the need to work on City owned land, ask me or any of the other members for an invite to the Land Management group.

Actually, I have split City owned land into the Land Management Group for those parcels we intend to preserve for the City, and the "Available Land" group for those which are destined for sale. There are no critical functions for that group except to provide a separate identity for land in that catagory. I've filled it with my alts. When land is sold Rudeen "Reclaims" it and deeds it to the buyer.

Then we get more vague about groups. The Guild is a good example. Die Gilde was the group which Kendra had formed. Since she is the founder, anyone in it should leave, since she is no longer a city member, and therefore the City no longer holds final authority over it. If we need a group for the Guild, let's form a new one.

Actually, this brings up an interesting problem. Groups actually have three levels of membership. There are members, who, within the group system, have little authority. There are the officers, who can invite other officers. They can "Eject" members, BUT NOT other officers.

Interestingly, no one can eject Officers directly. However, the Founder has ultimate control, because the Founder can send an email to [email protected] requesting that any officer be demoted to member, from where, if any other officer, or the Founder, wishes, they can be ejected.

This is what Rudeen did with the Raumnutzung. There are now no further officers but her, and, indeed, all members should leave so that we can disband the group. She can always "Eject" them if need be.

But... the problem. Every group must have a founder, the person with ultimate authority over that group. This causes a fundamental flaw in any City governmental system which uses a group for its structure. Should that Founder leave the City, the Group must be disbanded and reformed with a new Founder who is currently a citizen.

I feel this causes a dilemma for a "Guild" group, or even for a "Neufreistadt" group. Should the founder leave, the group is subject to the ultimate control of a non-citizen... not an appropriate situation.

We may wish to form a Guild group and a Neufreistadt group for convenience, but we should be very wary of investing any authority in such groups.

Sudane

[Salzie Sachertorte]

Hmm, I did not know that about group founders - I guess I'm stuck in Neufreistadt forever. Perhaps that is an issue we should lobbying LLs about when the topic of changing groups and tools arises.

So let me get this straight - we have two land groups - city land and available land, which theoretically can cover all the sims the CDS acquires. Rudeen is the founder of these and others who help with City projects and land mangement are officers.

We would then have a group for each branch of government, and the members of the respective branches would belong to the respective groups, as either officers or members.

Each faction would also have its own group, officers and members.

Each citizen has to have at least one group, presumably as founder, to hold their deed to land - hopefully wisely named so that they could use it in whichever sim(s) of the CDS they hold land in.

Then we have the overarching CDS group, and one group for each sim, which I presume each citizens would belong to? And why would they need to?

Would each sim have their own groups for their own branches of government?

So, theoretically, every citizen would be in at least one group and possibly as many as seven?

As to leaving, I wonder if it would be possible for a founder to leave a group and turn it over to another av, with the help of LLs? Does anyone know if that is a possibility? Perhaps another point to lobby LLs about.

[Dianne]

I think what we need is a group to be the owner of the builds that comprise the city/sim much like the Guild group did. This group should probably be founded by the sim's titular "owner," in this case Rudeen. This group would be the "builders" group or "sim management" group and the one everyone who is building or working on the city would need to be in.

This could also be the same group as the land management group, but to me that group is really about land management and as Sudane says, it's kind of necessary to have two of them to manage properly. (or at least I think that's what she is saying)

Beyond that I suggest that there be a single group for each sim that contains the members of that sim as that seems like a no brainer.

This would be the "Neufreistadt" group, but the founder should again really be the titular "owner" of the sim (Rudeen again). When the new group tools appear (soon now), we can use that one group to designate all the different members of the government from the citizens to the RA. These two groups should be all we really need barring the possibility for land management groups.

If Sudane thinks that it's necessary or more effective to have two groups to manage the land, then I think the management or builders group or whatever we want to call it should be separate from those land management groups.