Breaking "traditions"

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Was the RA wrong to have a final meeting just before the polls opened on Jan. 13?

Poll ended at Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:26 pm

Yes
2
14%
No
12
86%
Undecided
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14

Gxeremio Dimsum
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Breaking "traditions"

Post by Gxeremio Dimsum »

First, please register your thoughts in the above poll. Once it became evident to all that CARE is not proposing anything substantive and popular that hasn't already been done, the party leader Michel Manen began criticizing the RA for meeting so soon before the election.

That's right. Criticizing the RA for taking time out of an election campaign to do its job and pass bills which had been waiting for a long time, and may or may not have been picked up by the next RA.

But you know, it seems to me there are several other "traditions" broken recently, and not just in order to serve the public. We've had quite a few "traditions" about political campaigning broken by CARE, and in my view these haven't served the public at large one bit. In recruiting hapless citizens (and noncitizens) as group members, in lying about accomplishments, in avoiding clear questions, in spending larger amounts of money than we've ever seen spent (that video project wasn't a freebie).

Bear in mind, I was not a member of this last RA session, and no one in my party was either. There are plenty of things to improve on from what we experienced over these last six months. But fulfilling a Constitutional obligation (to meet each month) and doing it in order to not leave the next RA with a backlog of bills is not something I think should be a point of contention.

michelmanen
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The only poll that counts is the democratic RA election !

Post by michelmanen »

[quote:13vnzffb]First, please register your thoughts in the above poll. Once it became evident to all that CARE is not proposing anything substantive and popular that hasn't already been done, the party leader Michel Manen began criticizing the RA for meeting so soon before the election.[/quote:13vnzffb]

That is your personal opinion. And I didn't "just begin". This has been my position all along.

[quote:13vnzffb]That's right. Criticizing the RA for taking time out of an election campaign to do its job and pass bills which had been waiting for a long time, and may or may not have been picked up by the next RA.[/quote:13vnzffb]

That's an indictment of the RA's management and prioritising of its case load and of its signal failure to focus on issues actually important to the majority of our citizens - not to mention a blatant misuse of its powers which allowed its members to make the adoption of this bill a central plank in their debate arguments against an opponent who had advanced an agenda based exactly on the principles behind this "stalled" legislation:

[quote:13vnzffb]Justice Soothsayer: A good example is the kind of citizen consultation in the legislative process that Michel mentioned earlier. We did that, in the discussions about the judiciary, and, just this morning... the RA passed a bill setting up a structure for future commissions whenever they are needed. It was a bill that passed unanimously, but only after thorough discussion about the policies (not the personalities) involved, and with amendments offered and adopted by both sides. So when others might talk about grand plans, we've actually implemented them. And CDS is better for it.[/quote:13vnzffb]
[quote:13vnzffb]

But you know, it seems to me there are several other "traditions" broken recently, and not just in order to serve the public. We've had quite a few "traditions" about political campaigning broken by CARE, and in my view these haven't served the public at large one bit. In recruiting hapless citizens (and noncitizens) as group members, in lying about accomplishments, in avoiding clear questions, in spending larger amounts of money than we've ever seen spent (that video project wasn't a freebie).[/quote:13vnzffb]

You seem to take a very disparaging and unflattering view of your fellow citizens if you think that they are so "hapless" as to be "recruited" in such an easy manner - as opposed to giving them credit for having made an informed decision after being clearly explained the current issues and being given the opportunity to voice their own opinions and concerns. If they would have been indeed so "led down the garden path" nothind would have stopped them from resigning their CARE membership and joining another faction. Indeed, some actually did so: TOPGenosse decided to leave CARE becaause he was not certain he wished to be a CARE activist, and Blinbling sunsequently decided to join the Simplicity Party. Nothing stopped all other 14 CARE members who are still part of the CARE faction to do the same, had they felt so "happless" as you claim.

CARE has offered a detailed and specfic Policy Platform and asked all questions posed to it. I am the only faction leader who gave a lengthy and detailed interview to a reporter (as it happens, your alt ...) and answered all questions asked of him, no matter how biased or unfair, until the reporter no longer had anything to ask. The fact that you disagree with our answers, or utterly fail to undertsand why we refuse to have only our leaders draft specific Bills before engaging in specific and detailed public consultation with not only our members, but the CDS citizens at large, shows that you have no comprehesion of the core of our agenda focusing on absolute inclusion, deep diversity, the force of the best argument, openness, accountability, and active citizen participation. And it is not CARE who lied about its accomplishments - they have been reported and publicised and commented on not only by members of opponent factions in the CDS, but also by independent SL news organizations, which described CARE’s leading-edge video campaign ad as “a uniquely emblematic link: a machinima-based YouTube election ad for a virtual world political party” and stated that “n a crowded field of people claiming they were the first to do something in Second Life, Michel Manen has a pretty good claim: he was the first to create a video advertisement for an inworld political party." The free publicity this entirely positive video has brought to the CDS and its builders and creatives has been largely acknowledged by all, including those favoring or belonging to opposing factions, and is evidenced by the fact that the video in quesion has been watched 646 time iRL in less than 6 days.

CARE is reaching out to more citizens and non-citizens than ever before, is opening up and democratising our electoral and decision-making process, is re-energising citizens who usually do not participate in the forums and in-world meetings (and limited to about 15 or so out of the 70-odd citizens of the CDS) and is revolutionising our entire process of governance, in accordance with iths motto of "Democracy, Prosperity, Diversity in a Fair and Sustainable CDS" - and doing so with a positive, uplifiting, vision-focused campaign entirely free of negative, underhanded, personally destructive attacks on its opponent factions or its members. The fact that you resent this and try by any and all means avaialabe to undermine our standing and credibility will not fool those "hapless" citizens whose faculties of judgement and discernment you underestimate and disrespect so much with your gratuitous and ill-considered comments.

[quote:13vnzffb]
Bear in mind, I was not a member of this last RA session, and no one in my party was either. There are plenty of things to improve on from what we experienced over these last six months. But fulfilling a Constitutional obligation (to meet each month) and doing it in order to not leave the next RA with a backlog of bills is not something I think should be a point of contention. :lol: ) [/quote:13vnzffb]

Neither CARE nor I claimed that the RA should violate any of this constitutional obligations- but inasfar as I know, a month has 30 days - not 14, and the RA could have -and did- meet during that 30-day period before the two weeks preceding the election period and had no need to do so (twice!) and adopt major pieces of legislation in order to satisfy its constitutional duties.

Gxeremio Dimsum
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Re: The only poll that counts is the democratic RA election

Post by Gxeremio Dimsum »

[quote="michelmanen":34efc3yp]That is your personal opinion. [/quote:34efc3yp]

How do you reconcile your "inclusive" ideals with the fact that you use the above phrase to dismiss arguments without responding to their claims?

[quote:34efc3yp]You seem to take a very disparaging and unflattering view of your fellow citizens if you think that they are so "hapless" as to be "recruited" in such an easy manner - as opposed to giving them credit for having made an informed decision after being clearly explained the current issues and being given the opportunity to voice their own opinions and concerns. [/quote:34efc3yp]

I'm responding to the accounts I heard, of people joining not for political reasons, but because they were spammed and invited into a group by someone they perceived as a friend. I have a very high view of the people of CDS, as a matter of fact. And I again note that no one who has been around the CDS very long has decided to join CARE.

[quote:34efc3yp]CARE has offered a detailed and specfic Policy Platform and asked all questions posed to it. [/quote:34efc3yp]

I posed 4 specific questions to you in a thread just a few hours ago - and you have not responded, though you have written many posts on other topics during that time. Additionally, you did not participate in Fernando's voter guide questions, which many people are using, if not to choose their top choice then at least to help them in ranking their choices.

[quote:34efc3yp] I am the only faction leader who gave a lengthy and detailed interview to a reporter (as it happens, your alt ...) and answered all questions asked of him, no matter how biased or unfair, until the reporter no longer had anything to ask. [/quote:34efc3yp]

THe newsworthiness of your video as an SL first has nothing to do with the facts of the campaign for CDS political office.

[quote:34efc3yp]you have no comprehesion of the core of our agenda focusing on absolute inclusion, deep diversity, the force of the best argument, openness, accountability, and active citizen participation.[/quote:34efc3yp]

Isn't this a personal attack?

[quote:34efc3yp]And it is not CARE who lied about its accomplishments - they have been reported and publicised and commented on not only by members of opponent factions in the CDS, but also by independent SL news organizations, which described CARE’s leading-edge video campaign ad as “a uniquely emblematic link: a machinima-based YouTube election ad for a virtual world political party” and stated that “n a crowded field of people claiming they were the first to do something in Second Life, Michel Manen has a pretty good claim: he was the first to create a video advertisement for an inworld political party." [/quote:34efc3yp]

I wrote that last line; and it has nothing to do with CARE's accomplishments which you misrepresented: that other parties were following in your footsteps, that in fact the RA had rushed through a bill that stole your very wording. THAT is what was lied about.

[quote:34efc3yp]CARE is reaching out to more citizens and non-citizens than ever before, is opening up and democratising our electoral and decision-making process, is re-energising citizens who usually do not participate in the forums and in-world meetings[/quote:34efc3yp]

So if you're not reaching them on the internet, and not inworld, where are you reaching them exactly? It seems to me that you're hiding behind a DESIRE for public consultation and input which as far as I can tell has not in one small way shaped the CARE platform or policy agenda, which instead seems to be shaped by you alone in the same style as your real-world group CRAEDO. On the other hand, the Simplicity Party has engaged in substantive and collaborative discussion to formulate its platform.

[quote:34efc3yp]The fact that you resent this and try by any and all means avaialabe to undermine our standing and credibility will not fool those "hapless" citizens whose faculties of judgement and discernment you underestimate and disrespect so much with your gratuitous and ill-considered comments.[/quote:34efc3yp]

Another personal attack. Wow, right in the middle of your "I take the high road" speech, too! I think the best thing for all concerned would be to release selected forum postings from various party members for public scrutiny and response.

"Hapless," by the way, does not mean helpless or stupid, it means they deserve pity, for being victims of someone trying to dupe them. It's no fault of their own.

[quote:34efc3yp]Neither CARE nor I claimed that the RA should violate any of this constitutional obligations- but inasfar as I know, a month has 30 days - not 14, and the RA could have -and did- meet during that 30-day period before the two weeks preceding the election period and had no need to do so (twice!) and adopt major pieces of legislation in order to satisfy its constitutional duties.[/quote:34efc3yp]

Putting aside your questionable math, since the election is two weeks, and the period beforehand is another two weeks, adding up to a month total, I need to correct my earlier statement about the requirement being monthly meetings. As Claude pointed out in another thread, the Constitution actually says, "The RA will convene at least once per fortnight."

michelmanen
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Thank you for your comments

Post by michelmanen »

Gxeremio,

Thank you for your comments. We shall soon see whether the 70-odd citizens of the CDS share your views. After all, in a democracy, that is the only poll that truly counts.

As to your claim about my having lied regarding the most recent RA bill, I have answered in detail to Jon's post on this matter in another forum and shall not repeat myself here.

I also recommend that you read Claude's posting about the CARE manifesto and election strategy here: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=777. It is a model of cogency, fairness, and constructive criticism.. and will also answer some of your concerns above. I also recommend you study the other factions' manifestos, mottos and campaign techniques both before and after CARE published its own manifesto and implemented its election strategy.

Finally, as to your own opinions, I have answered your questions repeatedly and in detail. There is only so much time and effort I can expend on explaining my or CARE's positions to someone belonging to an opposing faction who clearly isn't inclined to acknowledge the veracity of my arguments - or those of CARE's. After having written 29 posts today -some quite lengthy indeed- I do not think an additional one or ten will make any difference to those supporting opposing views.

That being said, you are more than welcome to join CARE either as an Activist or an Observer and contribute to our discussions and debates. :lol:

Diderot Mirabeau
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Re: Thank you for your comments

Post by Diderot Mirabeau »

[quote="michelmanen":2ulqbn2e]I also recommend that you read Claude's posting about the CARE manifesto and election strategy here: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=777. It is a model of cogency, fairness, and constructive criticism.. and will also answer some of your concerns above.[/quote:2ulqbn2e]
Thanks for the recommendation. Although Claude writes a lot of insightfull stuff I'm afraid I shall have immodestly to take credit for the text mentioned in the above.

michelmanen
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Apologies :)

Post by michelmanen »

LOL! Sorry Diderot! After 33 posts yesterday I mixed up your names... I do apologise for that... :lol:

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