PCA: AC Abolition

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Carolyn Saarinen
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PCA: AC Abolition

Post by Carolyn Saarinen »

I was going to respond to Claude's post on the above matter, in the Representative Assembly Discussion, to the effect that I didn't understand why the Confederation of Democratic Simulators granted governmental, legal and - now apparently - budgetary veto powers to such an obviously un-democratic institution as a "self-selecting" body (for which read: Oldtimers private clique I guess).

However when I tried to post my response I got this message:

"Sorry, but only [b:2g41ex67]users granted special access[/b:2g41ex67] can reply to posts in this forum."

So, it seems we have another self-selected clique on the forums too! For the benefit of those of us at the bottom of this, largely invisible, hierarchy can someone explain just how many classes or castes of CDS citizenship there are? I was told that buying land in a CDS sim made me a citizen with the same rights as everyone else. I am increasingly coming to feel like an under-informed subject of a self-appointed aristocracy.

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Post by Beathan »

Carolyn --

The restricted forums are restricted to officeholders for a reason. We don't want announcements and discussions incident to office to be drowned out in the noise of posts and counter-posts. Therefore, your decision to post on this forum was the right one.

With regard to the discussion about expanding the SC's veto right, I think it is unnecessary to add a second veto power. Rather, we should handle the matter through Constituional amendment, which would allow the SC to act as an anchor of budgetary restraint through its current veto power. That is, we could add a "balanced budget" amendment, or somesuch, to the Constitution -- and the SC could then veto unbalanced budget items as unConstitutional. I would propose that we require every bill to include a revenue analysis (which is true to life) indicate whether it is revenue positive, negative or neutral. If it is revenue negative (involves costs to the CDS), then we should require it to identify a real source of funding. These items don't have to be part of the bill text itself, but should exist for the RA (and SC) to consider.

I would propose using the new guild, or the AC, to write the budget analysis. Alternatively, we can expand the office of the Treasurer, which already requries financial expertise, to write the budge analysis. However, this could be an additional and substantial burden on Sudane, so we might want to place that burden elsewhere.

IRL, Legislatures have professional staffs (code revisers, policy and legal and budgetary advisers) to do these tasks. We can accomplish the same thing through appointment of committees -- but they would be standing committees, not the usual and familiar ad hoc committees. For instance, under the Kill Bill as passed, we are essentially appointing a committee to serve the real life function of a Code Reviser's office. We can do the same thing to serve the function as a Comptroller General.

This discussion can and should be taken up as part of the Constitutional simplification and clarification process we are about to embark on.

Beathan

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Carolyn Saarinen
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Post by Carolyn Saarinen »

That does not address the issue of why - in a supposed democracy - [i:1vmt587w]any[/i:1vmt587w] veto powers should be in the hands of an un-elected body.

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Post by Beathan »

Carolyn --

The SC (the unelected body to which you probably refer) serves the function of the judiciary. (This is one reason why the Judiciary Act was so silly and unnecessary.) It is usual in democracies for judiciaries to be appointed and confirmed by democratically elected bodies, rather than directly elected. (Of course, it is also possible for them to be democratically elected -- although experience shows that the quality and integrity of judiciaries is lower when judges are elected.)

There is nothing undemocratic about having a representative government that is empowered with selecting other arms of government. (Veto by a representative arm is not enough -- the democratically elected government must be involved in the determination of members of any governmental body not elected by popular vote.) The undemocratic thing to do would be to have a governmental body that is entirely insulated from democratic control. (Again, as the "self-selected" judiciary proposed by the Judiciary Act would have been.)

I think we may need some reform to increase democratic control over the SC. This can and should be part of our discussion of Constitutional simplification and clarification. However, the fact that the SC is not directly elected does not make it undemocratic.

With regard to the Chancellor, the position is clearly democratic on this model. However, I see no reason not to expand the powers of the Chancellor along with making the posted an elected one. Again, this can and should be taken up as part of the Constitutional discussion that is about to start.

Beathan

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Claude Desmoulins
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Post by Claude Desmoulins »

Carolyn,

As to your inability to post in the RA Discussion Thread -- what Beathan said.

When a new bill is introduced and put in the RA Discussion thread, I create a parallel thread in Legislative Discussion. Since threads on the proposed amendment to remove the AC already existed there, I didn't do that this time.

Beathan ,

The question of the RA's role in SC selection is messy at the moment. The RA does not appoint SC members, but merely confirms them. The constitution says only that the RA shall assent to SC appointments based on the appointee's upholding the constitution. Some have argued that the RA thus has very limited grounds on which to reject an SC designee, and the practice has come to exist that designees can not be compelled to answer any questions at all during the process.

I think very much that this needs to be looked at.

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