Dianne leaving the SC

Dianne · Post by **Dianne** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:39 pm

Hello all,

This is your official announcement that Dianne Mechanique is resigning from the SC. Yay!

(somewhere Ulrika just fainted with delight)

I am just not around enough to be responsible for anything. I can't do a good job at it if I am not around to do it.

While I love being on the SC, greatly greatly respect all it's members, and have had a fabulous (and intensely stressful) time serving the CDS, my heart is no longer in it. In truth I am a bit disappointed in the direction that the CDS has gone over the time I have been here. I gave it a good long go (I think), and there doesn't seem much hope of this place ever evolving into what I personally want it to be.

The reason I came here is that I am very interested in the idea of virtual existence and virtual living and (therefore and especially), virtual government. I believe that what we have turned the CDS into is closer to a real government in a virtual world. It's not about virtual living so much anymore it's more about virtual extensions of our RL selves. The distinction is small, but to me central to my participation in the project.

Second Life in general has been (IMO) for a very long time spiraling out of control into something very very different than what it was when I started Something awful, something very corporate, something that is (to me), borderline Fascist. I don't put the CDS in that category, in fact, it's one of the only forces fighting against the general SL trend and for that we should be proud. Like Sl in general though, the CDS seems to be more and more about RL and less about our virtual lives here.

I will indulge in only one finger-wagging, negative comment about the CDS here so as to clarify why exactly I am removing myself from the affairs of the City. That is to say that (again IMO only), a community should have a vitality, a social life, and a heart, and while I have waited patiently for this to happen in the CDS, to be honest I guess I have given up hope (for now), that it will.

I know people will say that its a great little community etc., but to me it's not a community without the social side. There are rally no [i:3mddcage]parties[/i:3mddcage] in the CDS, no [i:3mddcage]events[/i:3mddcage], (not even scholarly ones! ), and there is [i:3mddcage]no business activity[/i:3mddcage]. The main square of both sims is closer to a ghost-town than a hub of community activity. Without these things, you can't really have a real living community in my view. Almost no one seems to "live" in the CDS.

I hope this doesn't bring anyone down or upset anyone, I am just stating my opinion here, others will differ of course.

I will be keeping my store in Neufreistadt for the time being and can be contacted by email, etc. so I won't be totally absent, just mostly so.

Desmond Shang · Post by **Desmond Shang** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:41 pm

Hm. While I don't think you should do anything that no longer suits you, perhaps in your new free state (oh gawd did I just write new free state!?) you could feel the weight off your shoulders, and socialise a bit - and recover exactly what is missing.

Honest, true, socially based avatar density is a function of... believe it or not... prim limits.

Yep, sounds nuts but I'm not kidding.

Say you have X prims. That can reasonably be divided into Y lots (anything too small and not enough prims). The average resident has say, maybe one friend around on average and and is 'home' only so often.

So let's look at an average sim (not Neufreistadt) for a moment. Say there are 25 different residencies and not more, due to prim limits more than anything else.

This is a rough, rough estimate, but watch:

(homes: 25) x (avatar + 'friends' hanging around: 2) x (online time spent in home sim: 25%) x (online concurrency: 20%) = 2.5 avatars in the sim.

Or maybe 4 max at primetime hours and zero for all the other times. Proof of this: take a look at large residential areas in say, Dreamland or Otherland. They aren't empty residential sims - they are popular, solid full, and that's all they do in terms of traffic on average. Because there are not enough prims to support more residents in close proximity.

Add other factors, like oldbies that exist largely in alts and in forums, and your sim avatar count is done for.

Worst of all, add a lot of public spaces (those take prims!) and a modestly strict building covenant rendering less creative use of the prims available, and you are doomed. A spike through the heart is having an urban environment.

A wild sim doesn't feel creepy when empty because, well, it's supposed to be wild and empty. But an urban sim without avatars just has this... creepy vibe of desolation. Like the Monkey Plague has just struck and you are the last person on earth. This is why I waited 9 sims before taking on a city, and only one, and then putting a freebie center in the middle of it.

If prims are ever doubled up, everyone will be able to have twice as many residences in a sim and thus, twice the avatar density at any given time.

So maybe you could turn your stepping down into a cure for that very thing that would turn the city around for you. If I ever get a minute aside, I'll drop by and add my green dot for a bit. It's literally been over a year since I've said hello... it's about time I did.

Prokofy · Post by **Prokofy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:25 am

That's a brilliant analysis, Desmond. I never thought of why Frieswiththat and for that matter Miramare and Grignano didn't have any traffic (the lowest trafficked sims with infohubs are precisely those of Nova Albion, Miramare, etc. that have the urban buildings). But you're right-- you can't get the prims for the residences, even having double prims. It's never enough.

It's not just the prims. I think people don't want urban environments when they are flying around in an online fantasy. They tend more toward the beach, the pastoral, the past, the medieval, etc.

when they do flock to urban environments, they are the ones with crime, drama, graffiti etc like Nexxus Prime or something.

a well-mannered, well-built city doesn't grab them for much more than shopping, in and out kind of thing.

Arria Perreault · Post by **Arria Perreault** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:08 am

Why sims should be crowded?

I don't agree with Desmond theory for many reasons.

- A sim need to have urbanism or, at least, a general conception. Even we are virtual beings we have eyes. A lot of places in SL are totally ugly. I except from a virtual world beauty and elegance.

- Quantity is not a good criterium. I much prefer quality. In CDS, i had the opportunity to meet very interesting persons. I notice also that poeple who arrived in our sims are generally very interesting. I don't expect crowd in my exhibition, only quality of exchange. Read regularly the list of popular places in SL search tool. You will agree with me ...
Poeple who think that we need more traffic ignore the concept of the long tail. This concept is a very important observation in e-business. Instead to have strong products which are massively bought, we have a many products bought in small quantity. So is Amazon. (Read Chris Anderson text about this concept). In SL we have many sims and every sims attract poeple, some "many" (as many as we can have on a sim), some few. A good measure of sim success would be presence in blogs and in RL media. In this point of view, CDS seems to have good position.

- Business is probably something that we have to analyse in SL. Except real estate, business does not work so well. When a product is new, it is quiet expensive. Some weeks later, many people are able to copy it. SL is mostly used for marketing or as tool by many firms, which don't win money in SL, but with SL.

- It seems that crowd makes sims crashed...

- For some reasons that anthropologists have to try to explane, many avatars will have a place to be, to deconnect. It is reasonable that they don't spent all the time in their house. They mostly need it to deconnect and, sometimes, to invite poeple. The spent the rest of their time explorating SL. It's nicer to have a house in a pleasant environment, with nice neighbours that we can sometimes meet in public space.

- Activities can be more developed, but they still exist. In CDS, we have several galleries. Maybe art and culture are our domain.

- There are several models of sim's management: king/queen model is one, virtual community is another one. The second way is probably not the easiest and we will see our gain later. It could bring collective intelligence. For example, we learn quicker being citizen in CDS because we have very experienced neighbours. The king/queen model is based on the intelligence and the wisdom of one person. Renewal can hard, after months or years of activities.

For all these reasons, i believe that CDS can bring something to our understanding of virtual worlds. It is not always easy and maybe our model of democracy could be revised. As I have aften told, the model of direct democracy seems to me better for small communities than representative democracy.
The is that we are a community. Do you need to see your parents and friends all the time, to know that they exist? You know where they are if you need them and they know where you are if they need you. As we are .... (In fact, community are mostly virtual community)

Dnate Mars · Post by **Dnate Mars** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:16 am

The lack of community is really hurting CDS. There is no way around it. Without the community, we are nothing more then another place to rent land. I would very much like to see people in CDS, exploring, sitting in the spa, and just enjoying themselves. But I really don't see this any more. I know I am part of the problem, I am just too busy to really be around. I have also question why I am staying with this project. I too am seeing something I don't really care for come out of our government. This is just my opinion, but I just see a bunch of people in the RA that just want to have the power. I am a strong believer in limited government interference. I fear that this may not be where CDS is heading, and I don't know if I want to continue to support it.

Claude Desmoulins · Post by **Claude Desmoulins** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:36 pm

[quote="Dnate Mars":2qp42b3c] I too am seeing something I don't really care for come out of our government. This is just my opinion, but I just see a bunch of people in the RA that just want to have the power. I am a strong believer in limited government interference. I fear that this may not be where CDS is heading, and I don't know if I want to continue to support it.[/quote:2qp42b3c]

[i:2qp42b3c]...bristles slightly[/i:2qp42b3c]

I wonder if you could be more specific about just what you take issue with here. As one of the allegedly power hungry, I'd like clarification. The only thing I can think of this term which might qualify as "interference" would be some issues with code enforcement. If this isn't what you're talking about, what interference do you mean?

Dnate Mars · Post by **Dnate Mars** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:24 pm

[quote="Claude Desmoulins":l22m097z][quote="Dnate Mars":l22m097z] I too am seeing something I don't really care for come out of our government. This is just my opinion, but I just see a bunch of people in the RA that just want to have the power. I am a strong believer in limited government interference. I fear that this may not be where CDS is heading, and I don't know if I want to continue to support it.[/quote:l22m097z]

[i:l22m097z]...bristles slightly[/i:l22m097z]

I wonder if you could be more specific about just what you take issue with here. As one of the allegedly power hungry, I'd like clarification. The only thing I can think of this term which might qualify as "interference" would be some issues with code enforcement. If this isn't what you're talking about, what interference do you mean?[/quote:l22m097z]

I didn't mean it the way it came out. I think that code enforcements are a different then the RA power issues. Since I have started here, I have seen most of the power go from 3 branches of government down to it almost completely being held in the RA. There was also supposed to be a government for each sim that would handle local issues and a bigger CDS that handled the regional issues. That seems to have been completely abandoned. I don't like the thought of too much power in the hands of so few. I also understand that now it is harder to spread power out because there are so few people that are part of it.

I didn't mean to insult anyone in the RA, because I know they are trying to do what they see as the best for the CDS.

Claude Desmoulins · Post by **Claude Desmoulins** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:05 pm

Thanks for explaining.

There's a government density issue at play as well. Right now we have;

5 RA
? SC (max of 9)
1 EO
1 Treasurer
1 PIO
1 Chancellor
2 archivists (SC/RA)
a couple of caretakers

-----------
about 20 positions out of a community of seventy. In fact duplication means that about 15 people do all those jobs. Some of them have been quite hard to keep filled (think of the PIO) Some people think that proportion is very high. It cerainly is when compared to a RL community.

Also , if you look at what the RA has actually done this term ( government structural changes, debating group land and citizenship, regional planning) they are very much regional issues as opposed to things like CN covenant provisions.

I hope that at some point the sort of devolution you discuss will occur, but if we do it now, it means that you would need to add some sort of local government for each sim (probably a minimum ofthree persons per sim) pushing the proportion of citizens in some government position back close to 50%.

One of Pat's points is that to continue to be a healthy community, the CDS must be not just about government. He suggests that the creation of various civic and non governmental entities -- what he describes as 'civil society' -- may require a critical mass of citizenry 10 times our current population levels.

The one place I think this might work in the near term is to turn covenant management and perhaps modification over to a "planning and zoning board" for each sim. The RA would set a general theme (Medieval Germanic/Early Roman Empire) and the local P&Z would have the power to create specific provisions under that framework.

DO we have enough citizens willing to fill these positions were they to be created? I don't know.

Dnate Mars · Post by **Dnate Mars** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:35 pm

[quote="Claude Desmoulins":2qeprax6]Thanks for explaining.

There's a government density issue at play as well. Right now we have;

5 RA
? SC (max of 9)
1 EO
1 Treasurer
1 PIO
1 Chancellor
2 archivists (SC/RA)
a couple of caretakers

-----------
about 20 positions out of a community of seventy. In fact duplication means that about 15 people do all those jobs. Some of them have been quite hard to keep filled (think of the PIO) Some people think that proportion is very high. It cerainly is when compared to a RL community.

Also , if you look at what the RA has actually done this term ( government structural changes, debating group land and citizenship, regional planning) they are very much regional issues as opposed to things like CN covenant provisions.

I hope that at some point the sort of devolution you discuss will occur, but if we do it now, it means that you would need to add some sort of local government for each sim (probably a minimum ofthree persons per sim) pushing the proportion of citizens in some government position back close to 50%.

One of Pat's points is that to continue to be a healthy community, the CDS must be not just about government. He suggests that the creation of various civic and non governmental entities -- what he describes as 'civil society' -- may require a critical mass of citizenry 10 times our current population levels.

The one place I think this might work in the near term is to turn covenant management and perhaps modification over to a "planning and zoning board" for each sim. The RA would set a general theme (Medieval Germanic/Early Roman Empire) and the local P&Z would have the power to create specific provisions under that framework.

DO we have enough citizens willing to fill these positions were they to be created? I don't know.[/quote:2qeprax6]

Thanks for filling me in, I have been somewhat out of the loop lately. The only thing is that the RA controls most of those other spots. The RA could very easily vote to remove those positions at any time. The SC and Guild require a constitutional change. I agree we need to grow, and each theme needs to grow to support localized governments. I still am watching with concern and I am not ready to abandon all hope. I am just going to wait and see what becomes of this third sim.

Aliasi Stonebender · Post by **Aliasi Stonebender** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:41 pm

[quote="Dnate Mars":33zv9i45]
Thanks for filling me in, I have been somewhat out of the loop lately. The only thing is that the RA controls most of those other spots. The RA could very easily vote to remove those positions at any time. The SC and Guild require a constitutional change. I agree we need to grow, and each theme needs to grow to support localized governments. I still am watching with concern and I am not ready to abandon all hope. I am just going to wait and see what becomes of this third sim.[/quote:33zv9i45]

You [i:33zv9i45]are[/i:33zv9i45] a little out of the loop, Dnate.

*I* control most of those other spots.

Sleazy_Writer · Post by **Sleazy_Writer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:53 pm

[quote="Aliasi Stonebender":2s3kj6ls]You [i:2s3kj6ls]are[/i:2s3kj6ls] a little out of the loop, Dnate.

*I* control most of those other spots. [/quote:2s3kj6ls]
And [i:2s3kj6ls]how[/i:2s3kj6ls] does that make you feel, Dnate?

How power hungry is Aliasi?

Dnate Mars · Post by **Dnate Mars** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:15 pm

[quote="TOPGenosse":2x1ejsv2][quote="Aliasi Stonebender":2x1ejsv2]You [i:2x1ejsv2]are[/i:2x1ejsv2] a little out of the loop, Dnate.

*I* control most of those other spots. [/quote:2x1ejsv2]
And [i:2x1ejsv2]how[/i:2x1ejsv2] does that make you feel, Dnate?

How power hungry is Aliasi? [/quote:2x1ejsv2]

If that is the case, I am out right now!

Samantha Fuller · Post by **Samantha Fuller** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:53 pm

Ill throw in my two cents about lack of comunity. Right now in Neufreistadt we have 2 real residents, as in av's that spend most of their time in the sim Delia Lake and Top Genose. Five or six goverment leaders that simi regulary use the sims for goverment mettings which to date hasen't done much except rearange the boxes on the goverment organization charts . Two basic adiminstrators Sudane and Alisa who get satification out of actualy runing a sim but don't actualy live there. 5 or 6 volenter builders who work for the privilage of erecting structures that will be mantained on sims where other people pay most of the land use fees . Their are perhaps 8 or 10 other citizens that rent and ocasionaly show up for a while and/or put in their two cents. their are also i beleive 3 or 4 who use land holdings as a vote holder in SL's only nominal democracy.

Samantha Fuller · Post by **Samantha Fuller** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:56 pm

In short it's way to early to tell if this project will sucede or make an impact on the world.

Claude Desmoulins · Post by **Claude Desmoulins** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:09 pm

[quote="Dnate Mars":kv73i8zt]

The only thing is that the RA controls most of those other spots. The RA could very easily vote to remove those positions at any time. The SC and Guild require a constitutional change. [/quote:kv73i8zt]

The whole thing was an effort to make our processes more democratic. Remember that the old AC and the SC had very limited public accountability. It's true that many things now pass through the RA, directly or indirectly, but that's because the RA is the only body directly accountable to the populace.

The original DPU proposal called for a directly elected executive, but it couldn't get the votes it needed. Many felt is smacked too much of American style presidentialism. So we ended up with the RA electing the Chancellor and the Chancellor appointing a number of other positions.