Dianne leaving the SC

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Aliasi Stonebender":2nrf2ko7][quote="Dnate Mars":2nrf2ko7]
Thanks for filling me in, I have been somewhat out of the loop lately. The only thing is that the RA controls most of those other spots. The RA could very easily vote to remove those positions at any time. The SC and Guild require a constitutional change. I agree we need to grow, and each theme needs to grow to support localized governments. I still am watching with concern and I am not ready to abandon all hope. I am just going to wait and see what becomes of this third sim.[/quote:2nrf2ko7]

You [i:2nrf2ko7]are[/i:2nrf2ko7] a little out of the loop, Dnate.

*I* control most of those other spots. [/quote:2nrf2ko7]

You may control these positions but the RA controls you as well. I think a simple vote of 3 members of it is all that it takes.
As for controlling the RA through elections, not a chance, if not now soon most of the citizens will be renters. No different from the ones in Dreamland and getting the citizens to do anything tougher is like *laughs* "herding cats".
No if anything power in the CDS is held by a select few and there is nothing the "average" citizen can do about it. I have written before about how the government is out of balance. This subject is not at all new.

[Claude Desmoulins]

OK Ranma, for purposes of discussion let's play "absolute ruler for a day." How would you restructure to restore balance? Arria's direct democracy proposal--- something else?

Also, for reference, removing the chancellor requires a 2/3 majority (4 votes at the moment).

[Aliasi Stonebender]

Also also, if they remove me, they have to be arsed to find a replacement. If you thought finding a PIO was tough... *chuckle*

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Claude Desmoulins":rokzvi2w]OK Ranma, for purposes of discussion let's play "absolute ruler for a day." How would you restructure to restore balance? Arria's direct democracy proposal--- something else?

Also, for reference, removing the chancellor requires a 2/3 majority (4 votes at the moment).[/quote:rokzvi2w]

I think being the "absolute ruler for a day" will not work. You would just undo any changes made. The constitution is too easy to change. I have written a lot of material but you just do not get it.
The government is the CDS is too complex for its small amount in land and population. I sometimes think that the process has gone too far. You have 3 leaders of the community and those that follow. In the end I refused to give you my "quiet obedient consent". The CDS is changing and changing fast! I refuse to be a part of that change. The "tyranny of the majority" has arrived.

[Claude Desmoulins]

[quote="Ranma Tardis":3pamt5wz]

I think being the "absolute ruler for a day" will not work. You would just undo any changes made. The constitution is too easy to change. I have written a lot of material but you just do not get it.
The government is the CDS is too complex for its small amount in land and population. I sometimes think that the process has gone too far. You have 3 leaders of the community and those that follow. In the end I refused to give you my "quiet obedient consent". The CDS is changing and changing fast! I refuse to be a part of that change. The "tyranny of the majority" has arrived.[/quote:3pamt5wz]

I think you misunderstood my question. Your comments about the RA seem to suggest that you believe that we have a structural problem in that too many decisions pass through the RA. What I was trying to ask was, " If you had [i:3pamt5wz]carte blanche[/i:3pamt5wz] to rewrite the constitution in a way that would solve this problem, how would you do it?" If it is, as you believe, a structural problem, what's the structural solution?

[Arria Perreault]

I can propose that we rewrite the constitution, so it corresponds to our name: Confederation of democratic simulators.

Democratic: for so few citizen, we should turn to direct democracy in the level of the sim. Each sim would have is own council (with all citizen) and the meetings are prepared by a comittee of 3 persons.

Confederation: each sim send represents to the federal level, which is responsible for the general strategy. We have to consider bicameral system or not.

Anyway referendum should be possible: certain number of citizen can propose a new law, a modification of existing law.

A representative democracy does not function very well. Elected poeple are not close to other citizen.

[Nikki]

I also like Arria's ideas very much!!

These are also like ideas I have expressed in a planning thread: http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=1034

[Ranma Tardis]

[quote="Claude Desmoulins":d8efnj8i] I think you misunderstood my question. Your comments about the RA seem to suggest that you believe that we have a structural problem in that too many decisions pass through the RA. What I was trying to ask was, " If you had [i:d8efnj8i]carte blanche[/i:d8efnj8i] to rewrite the constitution in a way that would solve this problem, how would you do it?" If it is, as you believe, a structural problem, what's the structural solution?[/quote:d8efnj8i]

Ok, you have asked for it. Your RA has too much power and there is no real check to its power. Yes the SC can say a bill is unconstitutional but all you have to do is change the constitution to fit your plans.
1) The constitution needs to be hard to change, really hard. I think that a super majority of both the RA and then the citizens at large is required.
2) Next make the executive offices its own branch of government. Crying it is too "American" is not correct. Many countries have an executive branch of government. Also I am getting sick of American bashing. Yes they did it when Bill Clinton was President.
3) Decide if you want to have a PM or President in charge of the executive branch. Also it will put candidates up to fill the SC and the RA will either confirm or not. No other countries other than Americans do this as well.
4) Make sure that when a new version of the constitution and covenants are released they are correct. Changes have been slipped into them. With the RA voting to change the constitution so often it is hard to keep track but I have the documents as they were a year ago.
The above will get you on your way. I am still not sure why you are upset that the citizens do not "participate" in government. You have made this true with "Only the RA can.......". The citizens can write messages until their fingers are numb and it does not change a thing. It is up to you now; I am using my only power as a citizen, voting with my wallet. It was the only recourse left to me! I am deeding my lot to the MoCA as a parting gift.

[Claude Desmoulins]

[quote="Arria Perreault":4t4y8wlf]I can propose that we rewrite the constitution, so it corresponds to our name: Confederation of democratic simulators.

Democratic: for so few citizen, we should turn to direct democracy in the level of the sim. Each sim would have is own council (with all citizen) and the meetings are prepared by a comittee of 3 persons.
[/quote:4t4y8wlf]

1. Have you ever tried to get 25 or 30 people in world at the same time? Direct democracy would disadvantage whoever happened to land in the non-favored time zone. In contrast, the current RA can all be in world at the same time.

2. If we went this direction why not let each sim choose its own democratic structure rather than forcing direct democracy on all?

[quote:4t4y8wlf]
Confederation: each sim send represents to the federal level, which is responsible for the general strategy. We have to consider bicameral system or not.

[/quote:4t4y8wlf]

How would you then divide powers between the central government and the individual sims?

[Claude Desmoulins]

[quote="Arria Perreault":2atisd8k]I can propose that we rewrite the constitution, so it corresponds to our name: Confederation of democratic simulators.

Democratic: for so few citizen, we should turn to direct democracy in the level of the sim. Each sim would have is own council (with all citizen) and the meetings are prepared by a comittee of 3 persons.
[/quote:2atisd8k]

1. Have you ever tried to get 25 or 30 people in world at the same time? Direct democracy would disadvantage whoever happened to land in the non-favored time zone. In contrast, the current RA can all be in world at the same time.

2. If we went this direction why not let each sim choose its own democratic structure rather than forcing direct democracy on all?

[quote:2atisd8k]
Confederation: each sim send represents to the federal level, which is responsible for the general strategy. We have to consider bicameral system or not.

[/quote:2atisd8k]

How would you then divide powers between the central government and the individual sims?

[Aliasi Stonebender]

I'm beginning to think Cory Doctorow's comments about the Caves of 27-Stroke-B are accurate.

[Publius Crabgrass]

[quote="Claude Desmoulins":nx39ldk7]1. Have you ever tried to get 25 or 30 people in world at the same time? Direct democracy would disadvantage whoever happened to land in the non-favored time zone. In contrast, the current RA can all be in world at the same time.
[/quote:nx39ldk7]

1. Direct democracy need not mean the synchronous democracy of a New England-style town meeting (all in one place at the same time) as input/debate/voting could occur asynchronously over a short period of time.

2. Getting the current RA all in-world at the same time has been a challenge of late.

[Arria Perreault]

I agree with Publius that direct democracy doesn't mean synchronised democracy. There are technical solutions for that.

[quote:1u76uqf9]
How would you then divide powers between the central government and the individual sims?[/quote:1u76uqf9]

If you study democratic states, you can see that tasks are divided between local governance and central government. Some things are really local. A sim convenant is local: for example any rule to respect architecture of CN concerns only CN and only CN residents can discuss it. Some things belong to the federal level: any affair between CDS and Linden for example.
Anyway the way that we share the tasks should be discussed.

[Claude Desmoulins]

That's what I was trying to get jumpstarted. I was hoping you might have specific proposals as to enumerated powers of either the local or central governments.

[Nikki]

In my opinion local decisions should include:
→ Covenants for what individuals can do with their land.
→ Design and use of public spaces.
→ Events allowed and level of support for them.
→ Structure of the local government and how it makes decisions (subject to democratic approval of the local citizens).
→ What "Jobs" people have in the local government.

One issue that probably would need to be worked out is what budgets local governments could have, in other words what part of taxes collected would go to them.
A local government would not have much autonomy if it did not have control over its own expenditures.