Dianne leaving the SC

[Arria Perreault]

I totally agree with Niki's list for local politic. Federal politic will mainly be:

- foreign affairs: mostly with Linden and maybe with other virtual states
- finances

Local taxes are a good question for a debate. In that cas, we have to develop other politics like economy, culture, ...
We can also have modest goals in CDS and in every sim and be like a syndication of land/houses owners... Maybe that is the case ...
In fact, what I like in CDS (to meet experienced poeple), could done with groups of persons who doesn't live in the same sim. One more time, we are in a virtual world ...

[Claude Desmoulins]

Actually a federalism debate has been tossing around for almost a year. The first federal proposal was in June 2006 (note the OP)

http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtop ... light=#198

When the topic resurfaced in the autumn, Gwyn wrote an "anti-federalist magnum opus" , if I may say so

http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtop ... ight=#2545

Her observations were made just as CN was opening up. Looking back, I'd have to agree with Beathan that the distinctions between CN and NFS have been greater than those between in-wall and out-wall.

Now that we actually have experience with multiple sims, I find myself a bit more cautious about federalism. Initially I was an advocate because I wanted to preserve the sense of "neighborhood" that existed in NFS (everyone knows everyone else, etc.) I think that, even without government decentralization, a cultural divide has opened up between CN and NFS, though some of it is, I believe, due to the sims being physically disconnected.

Nikki and Arria's suggestions don't leave much for a CDS government to do. Setting aside the question of whether they would make government too large, a devolution leaving most decision making in the hands of local governments would also, I think, lead to the decay of CDS as a source of identity. People would think of themselves first as Neufreistadters or Coloniae Novae and second or barely as CDS citizens.

If the CDS (central government) is really only about writing budgets and dealing with Lindens (where we can't really act like a government due to the Lindens' near limitless authority) then why be in the CDS at all, why not just do your own separate democratic experiment? The fact that the RA makes many decisions, whatever its faults, gives people a reason to care about elections, factions, platforms, and the CDS as a whole.

Finally, Aliasi keeps trying to remind us that democracy is a tool. We only need democracy because we share resources (many in SL don't) and we need some way to make decisions about those shared resources. We believe democracy is the best way. Now we just need to figure out who makes which decisions.

I guess my next question for Arria and Nikki is this: "If we decentralize to the extent you propose, what will being part of the CDS, as distinct from being part of NFS or CN or some future constituent sim, mean?"

[Nikki]

Thank you Mssr. Desmoulins. I have not yet read those threads, but will. For now I will also give my response at this time.

For me the growth of different kinds of communities within the CDS is a good reason for it to have more local government decision-making in each cultural area.

For example, citizens in NFS might prefer to make their own decisions about what the building covenants in NFS should be, and find it better that way than having those decisions made by people who live in other communities, such as a Star Wars sim. I have used NFS as an example, but it could be any community in the CDS.

There is a good reason to have an overall CDS government I think, in that it can represent everyone who lives in the democratically-governed communities which make it up. When NFS, CN and any other communities that will join in the future work together, they are stronger. There can be some aspects that govern the whole of the CDS.
A few examples:
→ How to vote
→ How to place questions and candidates on the ballot
→ Having a website
→ Paying property taxes; and redistributing most of these to SL
→ Dispute resolution
→ Working together for larger goals (events, for example)
→ Planning for future expansion at a larger scale than in relation to each of the cultural areas
→ Working together with SL and other external private landowners (to improve whatever we can)
With time I will be able to think of many more examples.

It was never my intention to say there should not be a CDS government, but only to say I think it would also be good to have local governments for each cultural area to govern their own local issues. Those cultural areas could also send representatives to the CDS government, helping to assure some balance across them.

[Arria Perreault]

It is very important, in my point of view, to have a local goverment level in CDS'sim. The goal of this local governance would be to manage local affairs, for example urbanisme. Since I am in Colonia, a lot of things have changed in the town: new buildings, merging of plots. In RL, any house owner has the right to opposit to a project of building, if he has good reason. At least, every project should be published in Praetorium. Every owner has a delay to make an opposition, if he/she has good reasons.
An other example is the TP point in Colonia Forum. I was put there, without concertation about the place listed on, the order of the places. In my opinion, this TP point is on public space, public places should be first.It may also contain a notecard explaining how and in which conditions a place can be put on. We really need to have ways to make concertations between citizen of CN. It's propably the same in NFS. In my opinion, the local level is the critical one.

[michelmanen]

The RA asked the chancellor many months ago to put up a TP point in the CN forum. The Chancellor was too busy over these months to take any action - but authorised private citizens to go ahead and set up a temporary one if they so wished, until the Chancellor would have enough time to do so herself.

Private citizens invested their own private funds to commmission, design and construct the TP point, as a service to the entire community. It is rather ironic that those who took no action whatsoever to improve the situation are the first to criticize those who put their time and resources at the service of the entire community, and find nothing better to do than to argue about which location goes on top of the other.

Perhaps if we all stopped waiting for everything to be served on a silver platter and took a more proactive approach to our community's welfare rather than stand back and criticize from the galleries those who do so, we would feel less left out of the decision-making process.

[Arria Perreault]

What you describe was called in ancient greek time evergetism. Citizen spent their own money to provide infrastructure for the city. In some cases, they got a statue on the agora or an inscription. But concept does not belong to modern states, where the equality of treatment is important.
1. nobody asks me to participate to the elaboration of this TP point. Can we have the list of these citizens?
2. This TP point is on public space. So, in my point of view, it should respect some rules. The process to publish information on it should be clear. If not open to everyone with transparency, you can install it on your basilica.
3. It's too bad that CDS is not able to manage small projects like this one.

[michelmanen]

[quote:2n3wd06k]What you describe was called in ancient greek time evergetism. Citizen spent their own money to provide infrastructure for the city. In some cases, they got a statue on the agora or an inscription. But concept does not belong to modern states, where the equality of treatment is important.[/quote:2n3wd06k]

Making such a clear difference between "the state" and citizens is a very outmoded concept of political participation. We always wait and do nothing and expect "the state" to do it all for us (incidentally, -this is called in modern French "jemenfoutisme"). This paternalistic idea of the state failed in Eastern Europe 20 years ago and is failing in Western Europe today. When "the state" cannot deliver, citizens have a duty to become involved in promoting the common good. This has nothing to do with ancient Greeks and Romans building roads or throwing games.

[quote:2n3wd06k]1. nobody asks me to participate to the elaboration of this TP point. Can we have the list of these citizens?[/quote:2n3wd06k]

If you had attended RA meetings regularly since the last election you would have been aware of this entire issue. If you would have read the forums, you would be aware that on 16 February, the Chancellor posted the following text asking all CDS citizens for their input and all those who wished to be listed for specific information ( http://forums.neufreistadt.info/viewtopic.php?t=937 ):

[quote:2n3wd06k]It has recently been suggested to me that a teleporter to various noteworthy locations might be useful in our sims to place at the Platz/Forum respectively. It also might have a good effect on our local businesses, effectively working as a 'white pages'.

In order to be fair about this, I'm posting this thread. Please reply to it if you would like to have a listing in the teleporter; I will need co-ordinates and a graphic to use on your 'button'. Preferably, this graphic should be 1 length high by 2 lengths wide (exact size doesn't matter as I will resize it, but keep in mind it must look good at a low resolution); either send it to my email (aliasi.stonebender at gmail (.) com) or drop a FULL PERMISSIONS copy on me in-world.

The notable 'public' locations will of course be listed, but this way places like the Craedo auditorium, or businesses not directly on the forum, can have some exposure.[/quote:2n3wd06k]

Since the Chancellor was unable to carry though this project in a timely manner, those who attended the RA meetings and / or read the forums took the initiative and went ahead after obtaining permission from the Chancellor. Talking to each citizen would have delayed the entire project to " les calendes grecques". The TP point is currently owned by the Colonia Nova Manangement Group and not by any private individual. The citizens who obtained permission, contributed ideas to it, built it and/or paid for it are Rose Sprinvale, Jeremy Utarid, Torin Golding, Antonius Camus, and Michel Manen (incidentally, this is more than 10 per cent of the voting population at the last election).

[quote:2n3wd06k]2. This TP point is on public space. So, in my point of view, it should respect some rules. The process to publish information on it should be clear. If not open to everyone with transparency, you can install it on your basilica.[/quote:2n3wd06k]

After the TP point was set up you came up to me, told me that you thought it was a great idea and asked me how one could get listed on it. I told you all you had to do is ask. You never came to me and asked to be listed. Tony Camus did and his name is listed. If you wanted a "clear process", why didn't you attend the RA meetings where this was discussed and proposed a "clear process" that would have met with your requirements?

[quote:2n3wd06k]3. It's too bad that CDS is not able to manage small projects like this one.[/quote:2n3wd06k]

And it's too bad you attack people who try to do something constructive when our government fails to do what it's supposed to do instead of being positive and working constructively to resolve outstanding issues.

[Aliasi Stonebender]

[quote="Arria Perreault":27ik70u0]What you describe was called in ancient greek time evergetism. Citizen spent their own money to provide infrastructure for the city. In some cases, they got a statue on the agora or an inscription. But concept does not belong to modern states, where the equality of treatment is important.
1. nobody asks me to participate to the elaboration of this TP point. Can we have the list of these citizens?
2. This TP point is on public space. So, in my point of view, it should respect some rules. The process to publish information on it should be clear. If not open to everyone with transparency, you can install it on your basilica.
3. It's too bad that CDS is not able to manage small projects like this one.[/quote:27ik70u0]

Hardly. It's been a long-standing case that builders in the city could freely improve on the infrastructure with (old) Guild approval, and minor changes simply as a function of their position.

Currently, those functions are instead vested in the Chancellor. When I asked for people to give me teleport locations to place on a teleport, Michel was the only one to respond and give me *everything* I asked for. The teleport sign I would have made, then, would not have been materially different from the current one in functionality.

That said, it was certainly intended as a temporary measure until I could have the free time to do something myself - since absolutely no one else has expressed interest in doing it.

Whatever disagreements I have with Michel, he actually [i:27ik70u0]did something[/i:27ik70u0], not just yammer about how nice it would be if someone did.

[Arria Perreault]

My reproach is not that poeple do something. I find it great.
It's only a need for transparency. If CDS is not able to do something that was decided, citizen can do it. Before the realization, these citizen would have to publish their proposal in the praetorium (for example). If there is no opposition, realization can go on. This could be considered as a general principle.
Now I stop to discuss all these matters of processes, because it takes too much time. I begin to realize that SL is becoming as complicated as RL. I am ready to debate with interested people about the consequences of federalism in CDS, maybe in an other context, more structured, and later. I have a new exhibition to prepare and be sure that museal activities are my priority.

[Patroklus Murakami]

This thread has moved into some interesting directions but the debate probably would be better under some other heading than 'Dianne leaving the SC'!

Please post a separate thread if you want to take these discussions forward so that it's easier for citizens (and other interested readers) to follow the debate.

Thanks,
Pat