[2021/11/06 13:20] Almut Brunswick: Dear fellow CDS citizens, dear Dean of the SC, dear RA members
[2021/11/06 13:20] Almut Brunswick: Hereby I call this Ninth RA Meeting to order
[2021/11/06 13:20] Almut Brunswick: (1:20 PM SLT)
[2021/11/06 13:21] Almut Brunswick: 1.1 Approval of the Agenda
Please grab your copy from the cube
[2021/11/06 13:21] Han Held: I've read it
[2021/11/06 13:21] Almut Brunswick: Rosie?
[2021/11/06 13:21] Rosie Gray: I have a small request
[2021/11/06 13:21] Almut Brunswick: ok
[2021/11/06 13:22] Rosie Gray: if the LRA wouldn't mind, to refer to the RA meetings by their date rather than which number they are in sequence... I just find it difficult to find things this way.
[2021/11/06 13:22] Rosie Gray: or by both, if you really like the number of meetings we've had
[2021/11/06 13:23] Almut Brunswick: Then both
[2021/11/06 13:23] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2021/11/06 13:23] Rosie Gray: 
[2021/11/06 13:23] Han Held: I suggest number and then date, but whatever
[2021/11/06 13:23] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 13:23] Rosie Gray: the number isn't really relevant, imo, in 'finding' the right document
[2021/11/06 13:24] Rosie Gray: but whatever
[2021/11/06 13:24] Almut Brunswick: The number is relevant in case we would have irregular meetings in between
[2021/11/06 13:24] Rosie Gray: /me shrugs
[2021/11/06 13:25] Almut Brunswick: Agenda
Ninth RA Meeting
Saturday, November 6, 2021, 1:00 PM SLT
1. Administrative Business
1.1 Approval of the Agenda
1.2 Review and approval of the Minutes of the Eight RA Meeting, October 9, 2021:
https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=9825
[2021/11/06 13:25] Han Held: The number is easier to visually distinquish and if I was mucking with records that would be my preferences but I'm the peanut gallery here so....
[2021/11/06 13:25] Rosie Gray: Motion to approve the Agenda as amended
[2021/11/06 13:25] Han Held: second
[2021/11/06 13:25] Almut Brunswick: let#s vote
[2021/11/06 13:25] Rosie Gray: aye
[2021/11/06 13:25] Han Held: aye
[2021/11/06 13:25] Almut Brunswick: Aye
[2021/11/06 13:25] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2021/11/06 13:25] Almut Brunswick: 1.2 Review and approval of the Minutes of the Eight RA Meeting, October 9, 2021:
https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=9825
[2021/11/06 13:26] Han Held: I'm ready to approve
[2021/11/06 13:26] Rosie Gray: are you making a motion, Han?
[2021/11/06 13:26] Almut Brunswick: The link was wrong by the way
[2021/11/06 13:26] Almut Brunswick: This is the right one: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=9826
[2021/11/06 13:26] Han Held: that's the transcript you just posted
[2021/11/06 13:27] Rosie Gray: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=9849
[2021/11/06 13:27] Rosie Gray: this is the Minutes
[2021/11/06 13:27] Almut Brunswick: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=9849
[2021/11/06 13:27] Almut Brunswick: Thank you. The link in the Agenda is nonetheless wrong 
[2021/11/06 13:27] Han Held: Finished reading
[2021/11/06 13:27] Rosie Gray: I apologize that I only got them done yesterday
[2021/11/06 13:28] Han Held: If ALmut has read them I move we approve them
[2021/11/06 13:28] Almut Brunswick: Ok, let#s vote
[2021/11/06 13:28] Han Held: aye
[2021/11/06 13:28] Almut Brunswick: aye
[2021/11/06 13:28] Rosie Gray: aye
[2021/11/06 13:29] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2021/11/06 13:29] Almut Brunswick: 2. Executive Report (Note: Chancellor Kyoko excused herself; she won't make it to the RA Meeting)
[2021/11/06 13:29] Han Held: pass?
[2021/11/06 13:29] Almut Brunswick: (and I would look weird in a kimono, so we should skip this point)
[2021/11/06 13:29] Han Held: heheheheh
[2021/11/06 13:29] Rosie Gray: hehe
[2021/11/06 13:29] Han Held: so next item?
[2021/11/06 13:30] Almut Brunswick: Yes
[2021/11/06 13:30] Almut Brunswick: 3. Land-Use Commission Report (Rosie)
[2021/11/06 13:30] Rosie Gray: sorry i didn't get these Minutes done yet
[2021/11/06 13:30] Rosie Gray: it wasn't a long meeting
[2021/11/06 13:30] Almut Brunswick: a synopsis would be fine
[2021/11/06 13:31] Rosie Gray: we briefly discussed the Chancellor role again
[2021/11/06 13:32] Rosie Gray: the LUC and the Chancellor agreed to move ahead with keeping the little cave in CN near the beach, and that a new experience will be added by moi to link it with the catacombs
[2021/11/06 13:32] Rosie Gray: (haven't done that yet)
[2021/11/06 13:32] Almut Brunswick: It seems there are still doubts despite the fact that the new LUC Act is now finally reinstated
[2021/11/06 13:33] Rosie Gray: the LUC discussed the moving of the CDS regions again, but nothing seems very likely at this point
[2021/11/06 13:33] Han Held: Moving meaning connecting to the Linden water regions?
[2021/11/06 13:33] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 13:33] Rosie Gray: and the next meeting will be Nov. 13 at 9:30 am slt.
[2021/11/06 13:33] Rosie Gray: yes, Han
[2021/11/06 13:33] Rosie Gray: done
[2021/11/06 13:33] Han Held: TY.
[2021/11/06 13:33] Almut Brunswick: Thank you
[2021/11/06 13:33] Han Held: And thanks for the report
[2021/11/06 13:34] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2021/11/06 13:34] Almut Brunswick: I assume that this waterfront moving topic will probably get more dynamic with Tor as Chancellor
[2021/11/06 13:34] Han Held: I doubt it, my impression is that the hold up is mostly on LL's end
[2021/11/06 13:35] Almut Brunswick: hmm nods
[2021/11/06 13:35] Han Held: I have a question for Rosie and the LUC
[2021/11/06 13:35] Rosie Gray: fire away, Han!
[2021/11/06 13:36] Han Held: Have y'all discussed how connecting the regions to Linden Water would affect the GMP, and has any consideration been given to updating the GMP to reflect where/how we would be connecting?
[2021/11/06 13:36] Han Held: I'm not sure how relevant the GMP is at this date, but still....
[2021/11/06 13:36] Han Held: done
[2021/11/06 13:36] Almut Brunswick: GMP?
[2021/11/06 13:36] Rosie Gray: well, yes the LUC did discuss the impact
[2021/11/06 13:36] Rosie Gray: General Master Plan
[2021/11/06 13:37] Rosie Gray: so much would depend on if/where/when any move happened
[2021/11/06 13:37] Han Held: Cool, thank you
[2021/11/06 13:37] Rosie Gray: the original idea was to move the regions so that they would connect with water from the 'north-west', where our lands are at water level
[2021/11/06 13:38] Rosie Gray: done
[2021/11/06 13:38] Han Held: sorry for the interruption, I thought you were done
[2021/11/06 13:38] Almut Brunswick: The General Master Plan is part of our CDS code of lawsß
[2021/11/06 13:38] Almut Brunswick: ?
[2021/11/06 13:38] Rosie Gray: it is
[2021/11/06 13:38] Delia Lake: sorry folks. I have to leave
[2021/11/06 13:38] Han Held: Good to see you, Delia; enjoy!
[2021/11/06 13:39] Almut Brunswick: Enjoy the venue. You are looking great!
[2021/11/06 13:39] Rosie Gray: https://cdsdemocracy.org/cds-themes/lan ... ommission/
[2021/11/06 13:39] Delia Lake: thank you
[2021/11/06 13:39] Rosie Gray: it details in the LUC act that the GMP is one of the duties of the LUC.
[2021/11/06 13:40] Han Held: hmmm, I hadn't looked at that in ages; I see from the map we could save a ton by connecting to the linden water. Nice!
[2021/11/06 13:40] Almut Brunswick: ok, thank you
[2021/11/06 13:40] Almut Brunswick: Yes, and we would become more recognisable
[2021/11/06 13:41] Almut Brunswick: Anyway...let's continue
[2021/11/06 13:41] Han Held: Yes.
[2021/11/06 13:41] Almut Brunswick: 4. Old Business
4.1 Constitutional Amendment for the Case that a Chancellor Candidate cannot be found
Reference to the Forum discussion: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9822
[2021/11/06 13:41] Han Held: I move we table this until next RA
[2021/11/06 13:41] Almut Brunswick: Second
[2021/11/06 13:41] Han Held: esp since the conversation seems to have stalled.
[2021/11/06 13:41] Almut Brunswick: I was about to propose the same
[2021/11/06 13:42] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2021/11/06 13:42] Almut Brunswick: Agreed unanimously
[2021/11/06 13:42] Almut Brunswick:
[2021/11/06 13:42] Rosie Gray: aye
[2021/11/06 13:42] Han Held: Aye and woo hoo
[2021/11/06 13:42] Almut Brunswick: 5. New Business
5.1 Constitution review Article III, Sections 1 and 2 CDSL 16-07 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act to bring them into alignment
Reference: https://cdsdemocracy.org/faqs/cdsl-16-0 ... dures-act/
[2021/11/06 13:43] Almut Brunswick: ok, let's look where the discrepancies are
[2021/11/06 13:43] Rosie Gray: I have to try and remember about this
[2021/11/06 13:43] Han Held: I'm gonna tell you -I'm lost.
[2021/11/06 13:44] Rosie Gray: once I remember I can fill you in, but I have to re-read the sections
[2021/11/06 13:44] Almut Brunswick: Han, we need to read the Constitution Article III, Sections 1 and 2 first
[2021/11/06 13:44] Rosie Gray: it's this bit: Article III – The Philosophic Branch
Section 1 – The Scientific Council
The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. Its service roll (ed. note: sic) is to resolve citizen disputes and moderate user forums and events.
Section 2 – The Scientific Council Body
The SC is comprised of Professors, Chairs, and a single SC Dean. Professors are chosen at the recommendation of current members based on demonstrated skill and desire to uphold the constitution without bias. Chairs are nominated by the Dean and approved by a simple majority vote. There are a maximum of nine Chairs available, with the Dean receiving one. Members of the SC can be voted out with a 2/3 majority.
[2021/11/06 13:44] Almut Brunswick: and then we need to compare it with the CDSL 16-07 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act
[2021/11/06 13:44] Rosie Gray: right
[2021/11/06 13:45] Almut Brunswick: Ah yes! I see the problem
[2021/11/06 13:45] Almut Brunswick: The Constitution does not see the RA as affirming instance
[2021/11/06 13:45] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2021/11/06 13:46] Almut Brunswick: Which is a defect of the Constitution
[2021/11/06 13:46] Rosie Gray: in my opinion, we need to change the Constitution
[2021/11/06 13:46] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 13:46] Rosie Gray: yes, agree, Almut
[2021/11/06 13:46] Han Held: Isn't that because the SC is intended to be independant of the RA?
[2021/11/06 13:46] Han Held: just as the RA is independant of the SC?
[2021/11/06 13:46] Han Held: yoinkin Tor's butt over here
[2021/11/06 13:47] Rosie Gray: well they are, but in the case of the SC they override the RA's choices, and in the case of CDSL 16-07 it gives the RA some input into the SC choices
[2021/11/06 13:47] Rosie Gray: I believe it evens things out more
[2021/11/06 13:47] Almut Brunswick: well, the SC needs to act independently, but we need to make sure from both sides - SC and RA - can trust on the members of the SC
[2021/11/06 13:48] Rosie Gray: yes
[2021/11/06 13:48] Han Held: I don't honesty know what that means, or what the issue is
[2021/11/06 13:48] Almut Brunswick: and like Rosie says: They can spit in our soup, so we need to be sure they do it due to a good reason
[2021/11/06 13:48] Rosie Gray: in my opinon, the SC being a 'self-appointed meritocracy' isn't exactly democratic
[2021/11/06 13:48] Han Held: By Trust, I mean
[2021/11/06 13:48] Almut Brunswick: Agreed!
[2021/11/06 13:48] Rosie Gray: hi Tor ㋡
[2021/11/06 13:49] Han Held: Neither is the US supreme court, which I'd consider a precedent
[2021/11/06 13:49] Rosie Gray: we don't need to consider US laws, I think Han
[2021/11/06 13:49] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2021/11/06 13:49] Han Held: I thought the intent of the SC was to be neutral, and not beholden to popularity contests -an objective party, as it were
[2021/11/06 13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all, sorry if I forgot the time.
[2021/11/06 13:49] Almut Brunswick: And I would also think about limiting the duration of SC membership. For example, when somebody in the SC is not showing up for a long time, but returns then and starts causing trouble, this should be prevented.
[2021/11/06 13:49] Rosie Gray: I agree that it is supposed to be, Han
[2021/11/06 13:50] Han Held: We don't need to be bound by them, nor am I saying to be. But we can look at the judicial structure for examples I believe, rosie
[2021/11/06 13:50] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2021/11/06 13:50] Rosie Gray: I find US law no more relevant than Italian law here in the CDS!
[2021/11/06 13:51] Almut Brunswick: SC membership could be for lifetime, but bound on the obligation to remain active in the CDS
[2021/11/06 13:51] Rosie Gray: Tor, we are on item 5.1 of the Agenda
[2021/11/06 13:51] Almut Brunswick: Italian law? They have really laws?
[2021/11/06 13:51] Han Held: Again, it's the structure of goverment I'm referring to Rosie
[2021/11/06 13:51] Han Held: Not a law
[2021/11/06 13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Italians just have suggestions 
[2021/11/06 13:52] Han Held: And if an applicable example could be found in the italian system, I would not object so srenulously
[2021/11/06 13:52] Han Held: *strenuously
[2021/11/06 13:52] Almut Brunswick: and objections (mainly against the EU and Germany^^)
[2021/11/06 13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: The SC can govern itself, no?
[2021/11/06 13:52] Han Held: They seem to have been just fine for the last 15 years?
[2021/11/06 13:53] Han Held: Anyway,. I'm not voting for any change
[2021/11/06 13:53] Rosie Gray: back to the point of our Agenda
[2021/11/06 13:53] Almut Brunswick: Yes, Rosie is right
[2021/11/06 13:53] Rosie Gray: this law has been on the books since 2012
[2021/11/06 13:53] Almut Brunswick: there is an obvious discrepancy
[2021/11/06 13:53] Rosie Gray: the SC brought up this discrepancy in their last meeting
[2021/11/06 13:53] Rosie Gray: so we need to address it
[2021/11/06 13:54] Rosie Gray: so either we change CDSL 16-07
[2021/11/06 13:54] Rosie Gray: or we change the Constitution
[2021/11/06 13:54] Rosie Gray: we can't leave them both as they are
[2021/11/06 13:55] Almut Brunswick: wait, there is an article in the Constitution which needs to be read as well
[2021/11/06 13:55] Almut Brunswick: Section 7 – Powers of the RA
In regards to the Philosophic branch:
The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution.
[2021/11/06 13:55] Rosie Gray: that's not the part that conflicts though, Almut
[2021/11/06 13:56] Han Held: I need to ask for a 7 day vote, I'm afraid. RL bestie just came over
[2021/11/06 13:56] Han Held: tc y'all
[2021/11/06 13:56:17] Almut Brunswick: The conflict is not so much between Art III 1 and 2 and the law
[2021/11/06 13:56:31] Almut Brunswick: the conflict is within the Constitution
[2021/11/06 13:57:00] Rosie Gray: well that's not how the SC sees it
[2021/11/06 13:57:18] Rosie Gray: they specifically said the conflict is between Article III, Sections 1 and 2 CDSL 16-07 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act
[2021/11/06 13:57:28] Almut Brunswick: or in other words: CDSL 16-07 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act regulates the details to Art I Section 7
[2021/11/06 13:58:02] Almut Brunswick: There is a conflict between Art I Sect 7 and Art III Sect 1 and 2
[2021/11/06 13:58:02] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Han
[2021/11/06 13:58:21] Rosie Gray: /me sighs
[2021/11/06 13:59:02] Almut Brunswick: Because Art III sees the SC as self-governing instance while Art I 7 defines our RA role in respect on the SC
[2021/11/06 13:59:27] Almut Brunswick: "The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch."
[2021/11/06 13:59:44] Rosie Gray: Almut... why drag in more things than we need?
[2021/11/06 13:59:53] Rosie Gray: this all goes back to 2012
[2021/11/06 14:00:13] Almut Brunswick: Because we need to find the point where to change the legal texts
[2021/11/06 14:00:31] Rosie Gray: but we know where the choices are
[2021/11/06 14:00:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Can't believe this has been festering for 9 years.
[2021/11/06 14:00:55] Rosie Gray: you might want to go back to the begfinning of this entire thing in 2012
[2021/11/06 14:01:03] Rosie Gray: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?t=3850
[2021/11/06 14:01:20] Rosie Gray: and reread all of the arguments so that we don't have to argue them all over again ㋡
[2021/11/06 14:02:06] Almut Brunswick: Not really, but when we will touch the Constitution, then we shouldn't miss all relations between the Articles involved
[2021/11/06 14:02:42] Rosie Gray: I move that we table this item until next meeting to give everyone a chance to read up on this.
[2021/11/06 14:03:46] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods at Rosie
[2021/11/06 14:03:57] Almut Brunswick: "The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy. " should be replaced by something less ... tyrannic
[2021/11/06 14:04:15] Rosie Gray: well yes I agree!
[2021/11/06 14:04:24] Rosie Gray: but we all need to read and understand all of the issues
[2021/11/06 14:04:26] Tor Karlsvalt: /me tries to skim these arguments.
[2021/11/06 14:04:39] Rosie Gray: changing the Constitution is important
[2021/11/06 14:05:03] Tor Karlsvalt: My take away so for is circular reasoning.
[2021/11/06 14:05:23] Almut Brunswick: but then we need to catch all places of relevance here. Not just turning one screw while omitting others.
[2021/11/06 14:05:51] Tor Karlsvalt: The SC had only one complaint I remember.
[2021/11/06 14:06:26] Almut Brunswick: Ok, agreed. Let's table it for now, but then we should also use the time to develop some suggestions in the Forum.
[2021/11/06 14:06:51] Tor Karlsvalt: /me nods.
[2021/11/06 14:07:08] Rosie Gray: Agreed, but first everyone needs to read up
[2021/11/06 14:07:34] Almut Brunswick: Of course, especially to get an idea of the scope of changes needed
[2021/11/06 14:07:46] Rosie Gray: I think it takes more than a simple majority vote to change the constitution too
[2021/11/06 14:08:02] Tor Karlsvalt: Yeah, this is confusing. Sounds like they were concerned about several things back in 2012.
[2021/11/06 14:08:25] Almut Brunswick: When we will have a full complement of RA members next term, we would have the capability to apply changes
[2021/11/06 14:08:45] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2021/11/06 14:09:16] Rosie Gray: Tor, do you remember the percentage of votes on the RA that it takes to change the constitution?
[2021/11/06 14:09:19] Rosie Gray: 3/4?
[2021/11/06 14:09:29] Rosie Gray: 100?
[2021/11/06 14:09:33] Rosie Gray: %
[2021/11/06 14:09:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I think it is 3/4ths.
[2021/11/06 14:09:49] Almut Brunswick: Nope! The RA can amend the constitution with a 2/3 vote.
[2021/11/06 14:09:58] Rosie Gray: where do you see that, Almut?
[2021/11/06 14:10:01] Rosie Gray: I couldn't find it
[2021/11/06 14:10:12] Almut Brunswick: Article I, Section 7
[2021/11/06 14:10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2021/11/06 14:10:24] Rosie Gray: thanks
[2021/11/06 14:10:24] Tor Karlsvalt: That seems too easy
[2021/11/06 14:10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: But ok
[2021/11/06 14:10:33] Almut Brunswick: It is written like this
[2021/11/06 14:10:50] Almut Brunswick: likely the reason for the quorum
[2021/11/06 14:10:53] Rosie Gray: well it's more than a simple majority
[2021/11/06 14:11:04] Almut Brunswick: 3/4 doesn't work well with 3 people
[2021/11/06 14:11:21] Almut Brunswick: you need at least 4
[2021/11/06 14:11:42] Rosie Gray: 4 out of 5 isn't too easy
[2021/11/06 14:11:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I was just thinking too
[2021/11/06 14:11:54] Almut Brunswick: this is indirectly an evidence of the minimum size of the RA
[2021/11/06 14:12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: So tho, we need three or four?
[2021/11/06 14:12:34] Almut Brunswick: Three
[2021/11/06 14:12:50] Almut Brunswick: when 2/3 is enough to change the Constitition
[2021/11/06 14:12:52] Rosie Gray: no, I think we need 4
[2021/11/06 14:12:58] Rosie Gray: 4 out of 5
[2021/11/06 14:12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: But that is just a majority
[2021/11/06 14:13:00] Almut Brunswick: when we would have 3/4, we would need 4
[2021/11/06 14:13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: Right I think we would have to round up and make if 4
[2021/11/06 14:13:14] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 14:13:17] Rosie Gray: we need 3 out of 5 now, for a regular vote
[2021/11/06 14:13:28] Almut Brunswick: or 2 out of 3
[2021/11/06 14:13:33] Almut Brunswick: which is also 2/3
[2021/11/06 14:13:40] Rosie Gray: it's never 2 out of 3
[2021/11/06 14:13:52] Rosie Gray: it has to be out of the full RA component of 5
[2021/11/06 14:14:25] Almut Brunswick: well, remember this discussion about the minimum size of the RA
[2021/11/06 14:14:52] Tor Karlsvalt: We need 4
[2021/11/06 14:14:54] Almut Brunswick: and that it would be dangerous to allow a three-member RA to change the Constitution
[2021/11/06 14:15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: 3 is to few.
[2021/11/06 14:15:23] Rosie Gray: I agree with Tor
[2021/11/06 14:15:33] Rosie Gray: anyway, we get ahead of ourselves I think
[2021/11/06 14:15:37] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 14:15:40] Tor Karlsvalt: We would need the .33 rep
[2021/11/06 14:15:41] Rosie Gray: first we need to read up and discuss it
[2021/11/06 14:15:43] Almut Brunswick: So let's table it for now
[2021/11/06 14:16:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[2021/11/06 14:16:07] Tor Karlsvalt: sounds good.
[2021/11/06 14:16:08] Almut Brunswick: 6. Citizen Concerns
[2021/11/06 14:16:22] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2021/11/06 14:16:38] Tor Karlsvalt: /me pokes the people.
[2021/11/06 14:16:41] Almut Brunswick: Lilith is not here... the usual voice of the people
[2021/11/06 14:16:47] Almut Brunswick: But Cathy
[2021/11/06 14:16:50] Rosie Gray: but Cathy is here ㋡
[2021/11/06 14:17:17] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2021/11/06 14:17:17] Cathy Sabre: I'm here.
[2021/11/06 14:17:17] Almut Brunswick: We bored her so much that she fell asleep
[2021/11/06 14:17:23] Rosie Gray: hehe
[2021/11/06 14:17:25] Almut Brunswick: Ah
[2021/11/06 14:17:40] Almut Brunswick: Any concerns from the CDS people?
[2021/11/06 14:17:41] Tor Karlsvalt: I thought religion was the opiate of the masses.
[2021/11/06 14:18:13] Almut Brunswick: Are you referring to the pagan cults at the Monastery?
[2021/11/06 14:18:21] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2021/11/06 14:18:37] Cathy Sabre: No. I'm adsorbing..
[2021/11/06 14:18:41] Almut Brunswick: Ok...I don't hear any concerns. Everybody is happy....
[2021/11/06 14:18:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Yay!
[2021/11/06 14:18:59] Almut Brunswick: 7. RA member concerns
[2021/11/06 14:19:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Just glad to hear we will have a full RA next term
[2021/11/06 14:19:44] Rosie Gray:
[2021/11/06 14:20:07] Rosie Gray: no concerns from me
[2021/11/06 14:20:24] Almut Brunswick: "The RA worked harmonically and in a cooperative way..." (="Almut was mean and nasty to us as always and I didn't listen at all anyway.") ^^
[2021/11/06 14:20:52] Almut Brunswick: 8. Announcements:
[2021/11/06 14:21:00] Rosie Gray: ^^
[2021/11/06 14:21:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Did we thank Lilith and Kyoko for the wonderful Dia de lost muertos party?
[2021/11/06 14:21:34] Tor Karlsvalt: It was great. And I always listen to the LRA. hehe
[2021/11/06 14:21:41] Almut Brunswick: Errmm ... no, but we should
[2021/11/06 14:22:10] Tor Karlsvalt: los* (I can't type today.)
[2021/11/06 14:22:23] Almut Brunswick: Do you know about any close events?
[2021/11/06 14:22:36] Almut Brunswick: I mean, advent time comes closer with big steps....
[2021/11/06 14:22:55] Rosie Gray: the Inaugural Ball
[2021/11/06 14:23:02] Tor Karlsvalt: That will be coming up.
[2021/11/06 14:23:06] Almut Brunswick: ah yes
[2021/11/06 14:23:08] Rosie Gray: which our incoming Chancellor needs to discuss with the outgoing Chancellor
[2021/11/06 14:23:13] Almut Brunswick: is there already a date set?
[2021/11/06 14:23:15] Rosie Gray: /me grins
[2021/11/06 14:23:26] Rosie Gray: I don't know
[2021/11/06 14:23:29] Tor Karlsvalt: She is away for the week, but I understand has email.
[2021/11/06 14:23:46] Almut Brunswick: Tor, you need to shave your legs before you can show up in the Chancellor's kimono
[2021/11/06 14:23:59] Tor Karlsvalt: It would be early December I think
[2021/11/06 14:24:01] Tor Karlsvalt: hehe
[2021/11/06 14:24:09] Tor Karlsvalt: no, more kimonos
[2021/11/06 14:24:27] Tor Karlsvalt: that is Kyoko and Pat.
[2021/11/06 14:24:36] Almut Brunswick: phew
[2021/11/06 14:25:03] Almut Brunswick: ok, then we just have one last top before we adjourn
[2021/11/06 14:25:10] Almut Brunswick: 9. Next RA meeting
[2021/11/06 14:25:47] Almut Brunswick: (when does the term officially end? November 30?)
[2021/11/06 14:25:59] Rosie Gray: yes
[2021/11/06 14:26:42] Almut Brunswick: great, then I propose to meet on Saturday, November 20, then again 12 PM SLT for the last time in this term
[2021/11/06 14:27:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Should be good.
[2021/11/06 14:27:12] Almut Brunswick: haaaaaastopppp
[2021/11/06 14:27:29] Almut Brunswick: I can't make it
[2021/11/06 14:27:31] Rosie Gray: ?!
[2021/11/06 14:27:33] Rosie Gray: aah
[2021/11/06 14:27:42] Rosie Gray: how about the 27th then?
[2021/11/06 14:27:43] Almut Brunswick: I have a RL commitment this evening
[2021/11/06 14:27:45] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 14:27:54] Rosie Gray: or we could just leave it for the incoming RA
[2021/11/06 14:28:04] Tor Karlsvalt: 27th is probably good too, or the latter.
[2021/11/06 14:28:18] Almut Brunswick: 27 is perfect
[2021/11/06 14:28:47] Rosie Gray: too bad Han isn't here
[2021/11/06 14:29:06] Almut Brunswick: so I propose Nov. 27, 12 PM
[2021/11/06 14:29:08] Tor Karlsvalt: that is Thanksgiving week in the USA.
[2021/11/06 14:29:20] Rosie Gray: it's a week now!?
[2021/11/06 14:29:23] Rosie Gray: /me laughs
[2021/11/06 14:29:38] Tor Karlsvalt: But even if I were to leave town I would becoming back on Friday.
[2021/11/06 14:29:41] Tor Karlsvalt: hehe
[2021/11/06 14:29:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Well people travel and Han ins in AK.
[2021/11/06 14:29:51] Almut Brunswick: Yes, you can give Rosie, Han and me thanks
[2021/11/06 14:30:17] Almut Brunswick: oh my....
[2021/11/06 14:30:38] Tor Karlsvalt: Hehe I am taking a week.
[2021/11/06 14:30:38] Rosie Gray: well why don't we just wait until December then?
[2021/11/06 14:31:15] Almut Brunswick: ok, but then this was our last meeting in this term
[2021/11/06 14:31:16] Cathy Sabre: I don't mind.
[2021/11/06 14:31:44] Rosie Gray: we will have lots of time to do our research anyway ㋡
[2021/11/06 14:31:45] Tor Karlsvalt: might be best
[2021/11/06 14:31:54] Almut Brunswick: ok then
[2021/11/06 14:31:57] Rosie Gray: well, seems to be up to you Tor
[2021/11/06 14:32:06] Tor Karlsvalt: If it is early, we could do all the oaths at the first RA
[2021/11/06 14:32:06] Rosie Gray: if Thanksgiving is an issue for the 27th
[2021/11/06 14:32:51] Almut Brunswick: I must admit that I would like to meet on Nov 27, because who knows when the first RA meeting will take place
[2021/11/06 14:33:07] Almut Brunswick: that can be in mid December, if at all
[2021/11/06 14:33:23] Almut Brunswick: But it's up to you
[2021/11/06 14:33:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like it to be early.
[2021/11/06 14:33:57] Tor Karlsvalt: If for no other reason but to deliver oaths
[2021/11/06 14:33:59] Almut Brunswick: We would then need to vote to adjourn for the rest of the term
[2021/11/06 14:34:06] Cathy Sabre: I agree.
[2021/11/06 14:34:56] Almut Brunswick: Do I hear a second?
[2021/11/06 14:35:09] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[2021/11/06 14:35:19] Rosie Gray: what are you seconding?
[2021/11/06 14:35:25] Tor Karlsvalt: hehe
[2021/11/06 14:35:29] Almut Brunswick: vote to adjourn for the rest of the term
[2021/11/06 14:35:38] Rosie Gray: please remember to phrase Motions as a Motion ㋡
[2021/11/06 14:35:42] Rosie Gray: ah, okay
[2021/11/06 14:35:49] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2021/11/06 14:36:25] Almut Brunswick: I have never understood that word, so "let's vote" incorporates "motion" for me:)
[2021/11/06 14:36:29] Almut Brunswick: aye
[2021/11/06 14:36:35] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2021/11/06 14:36:41] Rosie Gray: but it isn't the equivelant
[2021/11/06 14:36:42] Almut Brunswick: Thank you!
[2021/11/06 14:36:51] Rosie Gray: makes it hard to do Minutes
[2021/11/06 14:36:52] Almut Brunswick: You can write it in the MOM
[2021/11/06 14:37:04] Tor Karlsvalt: English is imprecise often
[2021/11/06 14:37:22] Rosie Gray: yes I will, but this is why we phrase Motions as "I move", or Motion to...
[2021/11/06 14:37:27] Almut Brunswick: Motion carries sounds for me like a locomotive
[2021/11/06 14:37:36] Rosie Gray: so that they can be easily understood
[2021/11/06 14:37:46] Almut Brunswick: You can write it this way
[2021/11/06 14:37:53] Rosie Gray: /me sighs
[2021/11/06 14:37:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Totally understand Rosie's pov tho.
[2021/11/06 14:38:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Those transcripts are horrible to comb through
[2021/11/06 14:38:26] Rosie Gray: what I'm saying is, that it's enough work to write the bloody things without having to comb through transcripts and reinterpret things
[2021/11/06 14:38:55] Rosie Gray: so if we can just keep to standard procedure, it is enormously helpful
[2021/11/06 14:39:09] Almut Brunswick: Well, yes. But when you see "second" and "aye", then we were obviously voting
[2021/11/06 14:39:25] Rosie Gray: why are you trying to make it more difficult?
[2021/11/06 14:39:34] Rosie Gray: can't we just keep to standard procedures?
[2021/11/06 14:40:06] Almut Brunswick: So ...what shall I say? "Motion to vote for..."?
[2021/11/06 14:40:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I think it is I motion that ......
[2021/11/06 14:40:31] Rosie Gray: yes, you phrase a Motion as either "I move...." or "Motion to..."
[2021/11/06 14:40:33] Almut Brunswick: I'm not familiar with English parliamentarian procedures
[2021/11/06 14:41:09] Almut Brunswick: So ok, let's make it better next term
[2021/11/06 14:41:13] Rosie Gray: if you click on the little book on the table it will explain things to you
[2021/11/06 14:41:18] Tor Karlsvalt: yeah, it's pretty common in most clubs and organizatons in the USA
[2021/11/06 14:41:30] Tor Karlsvalt: what to German's say?
[2021/11/06 14:41:38] Tor Karlsvalt: do*
[2021/11/06 14:41:59] Almut Brunswick: "Lasst uns abstimmen über..." - "Let's vote about..."
[2021/11/06 14:42:05] Rosie Gray: also, to be strictly correct
[2021/11/06 14:42:25] Rosie Gray: Chairs don't actually make motions... they can phrase one and then ask if someone will make the motion
[2021/11/06 14:43:07] Rosie Gray: ah, so you are using a literal translation from the German, I see
[2021/11/06 14:43:09] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2021/11/06 14:43:12] Almut Brunswick: yes
[2021/11/06 14:43:22] Tor Karlsvalt: That is true too. Tho you can deprive us of food and water if fwe don't behave.
[2021/11/06 14:43:24] Rosie Gray: it just makes things difficult for English Minutes
[2021/11/06 14:43:36] Almut Brunswick: we don't use any formal things like "motion carries..."
[2021/11/06 14:44:01] Tor Karlsvalt: That is a nice handle tho to look for when writing the minutes.
[2021/11/06 14:44:12] Almut Brunswick: I grabbed a copy and will try to comply with these procedures
[2021/11/06 14:44:12] Rosie Gray: do you have some recognized procedural documents that you refer to? we usually use Robert's Rules of Order
[2021/11/06 14:44:26] Rosie Gray: thanks Almut
[2021/11/06 14:45:11] Almut Brunswick: Ahmm no. We have procedural codes for clubs, parties etc. but they don't regulate the exact phrasing
[2021/11/06 14:45:20] Rosie Gray: aah
[2021/11/06 14:45:55] Rosie Gray: well I need to go
[2021/11/06 14:46:06] Second Life: Items successfully shared.
[2021/11/06 14:46:07] Almut Brunswick: bye Rosie
[2021/11/06 14:46:08] Rosie Gray: the days are so short right now
[2021/11/06 14:46:12] Almut Brunswick: nods
[2021/11/06 14:46:24] Almut Brunswick: We had to collect the fallen leaves as well
[2021/11/06 14:46:32] Rosie Gray: that's what I'm doing too
[2021/11/06 14:46:54] Rosie Gray: gotta go!
[2021/11/06 14:47:06] Rosie Gray: see you all later and sorry if I have been testy ㋡
[2021/11/06 14:47:13] Rosie Gray: bye