See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1837 for a non-normative (unofficial) index of the action items and main points from this meeting.
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Transcript of 19 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= "You", below)
Topic separators "----" inserted to separate agenda items
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[2008/04/19 9:06] You: Shall we start?
[2008/04/19 9:06] Moon Adamant: sorry Mr. LRA
[2008/04/19 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yep ..
[2008/04/19 9:07] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: I note that Beathan sent regrets, so we all are here, of the seated members who will come today
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: 
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: oh
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: and i came on purpose to explain the draft analysis if needed
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: Thanks all for indulging me in meeting here - nice way to commemorate this very successful & gorgeous 3rd sim project, as we grapple with the 4th one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: Yes, Moon, let's work that in
[2008/04/19 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but i dont like it here
[2008/04/19 9:08] Sonja Strom: Hi Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: hello Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: I think we were not going to do "priv dev" today in detail because Beathan's absent, but ...
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: btw, Mr LRA
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: The Guild has a question for the RA
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah lets wait for that one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: some kind of update on where we all think we agree, with sim 4, would e nice
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi smiles
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: but it can be placed wherever you like in agenda
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we are not in a hurry hun
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: OK Moon we will put it on agenda - and that agenda is here:
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: we have other things .. jamie i'll speak with you later
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 9:09] You:
[2008/04/19 9:09] Moon Adamant sits quietly and listens now
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: so we are called to order ..
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[2008/04/19 9:09] You: and as item 1a
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi is always quiet and listening
[2008/04/19 9:09] Symo Kurka: (does not understand in what kinda meeting has been parachuted)
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: Would all present please indicate assent to being recorded in transcript. I assent.
[2008/04/19 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist looks shocked
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: (Symo this is regular CDS RA meeting)
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: oops
[2008/04/19 9:10] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] You:
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: (Prin, I agree, this is a small room - once we have 7 seated members again it probably is out of the question)
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[2008/04/19 9:10] You: item 1b
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: Please look at the agenda - I just gave the Forum URI above in chat
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: we have one suggestion for change
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: report from Guild
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: should we just make that item 7 instead of taking up the current item 7, Beathan's "Priv Dev" bill?
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: not hearing any obj ...
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i object
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: to what?
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i cant cam and see ppl
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: its every annoiying
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this room
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: sok dont mind me
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: You may safely assume we will not using it again in my term - which is 2 more meetings
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: ahem
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: no objection, so amended agenda is approved
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi nods
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[2008/04/19 9:13] You: item 1c
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: Any one other than RA memebers come to speak on a specific item, who wishes to so indicate?>
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: so may i clarify?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if i want to speak what do i do exactly
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: what should say?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: see people call me a troll cos i talk too much
[2008/04/19 9:14] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into MT's hand.
[2008/04/19 9:14] You: you are an RA member you just tell us you want to talk - this "rule" is about nonRA members getting priority in a queue
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to know the exact words i should use
[2008/04/19 9:14] Jon Seattle: I am here to answer any questions. In particular tech questions in relation to referenda.
[2008/04/19 9:14] MT Lundquist: just in case
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but do i say.
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ?me raises her hand
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jon Seattle: i will remain quiet otherwise.
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jamie Palisades looks around - more relevant to a more crowded meeting, smile
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: or do i just talk
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: thanks
[2008/04/19 9:15] Moon Adamant: well, i al ready indicated that the Ng has a question, no, two questions to ask this RA
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: and Jon that may be helpful
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: they said i'm a troll jamie
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: hush
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: please
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so i want to get it right
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi hushes
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: I am not going to deal in here with attacks not raised in here, hm?
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: noting Jon and Moon's items, then - next item
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so if im a troll tell me
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[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1d
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know - or just make a corrective posting -- but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: next
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[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1e
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Future times for meetings
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: I have the following suggestion
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well this isn't working
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Beathan & the rest of us are expecting this time, for the next week, so let's do 9 am Satuday again on the ...
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to go back to sunday and maybe move it back so you have time
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: 26th, SLT
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe one on sunday instead of noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry this isnt seeming to work .. but then
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well its too late in the UK
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: OK, Prin, how is this not working?
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i just dont think we can find a good time nvm
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well no one is here
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: how come we had packed meetings and all RA memebers every time on sunday ant noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and now
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and last week
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: not so much
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: um this is not a roman circus, it's a meeting which needs quorum, so to *my* eye it works if we get quorum
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i like an audience
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: do you think that other meeting time was better for - um - spectators?
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well the citizens need to watch
[2008/04/19 9:18] Xcite! Ruler is now aimed at ThePrincess Parisi
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes cos twice in a roow not all the ppl in RA are here
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its not good now with out beathan
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: I imagine you might, dear - my own cross to carry has been only to make sure we can keep a quorum, when we only have 5 seated
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and no cindy
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: Now
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: here's my take
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: see i need my faction here to IM me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: Last week and this week we had one member gone - due to a nonrepeating one time commitment
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: im a nucare REP
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: not just me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but one time is now two
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: MT's reunion, Beathan's caucus - both one-time RL events
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: one time what, Prin?
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan was not here last time
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and now two in a row
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: without everyone
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and the common denominator is time
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: mt could have been here if it was sunday
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: see
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: me personal view is that we are both meeting too much - and have insufficient rules for kicking people who miss meetings off the RA 
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the middle of the weekend
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sunday at one is the end but for us in sltime
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: so its more ppl at home
[2008/04/19 9:20] Xcite! Ruler whispers: MT stares at ThePrincess Parisi's body and taps the ruler against his hand.
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: so in summary Prin - so that we do not spent all morning n repetitions of this point - you have decided that you prefer Sunday?
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: Whaat
[2008/04/19 9:20] Sonja Strom: Beathan posted in the Forum that he would have to be gone these two Saturdays to be a RL party delegate.
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so i do a concert then now cos its a good time
[2008/04/19 9:21] Sonja Strom: He said after this one he could make it on Saturdays.
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: OK, well, you were one of the people who indicated a poiossible conflict with US Sunday morning church time - but let's bring this to A CLOSE for now
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: but we dont have as big of an audience
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like that part
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: I plan to call the next meeting one week from now at 9 am SLT You may overrule me now if you like. Otherwise, if no motion to do so, let's move on
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like sundays
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: nope i wont come
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: but Princess
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: I'm sorry? what are you saying, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: nvm
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: i am sure that your party is agog to support you even on saturdays
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: Ahem
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: go on im gonna pout
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: ThePrincess have you announced that you plan not to attend next week unless you get a time you like? If so please be quite clear on the record, right now.
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: OR MAKE A MOTION
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: no i will reserve my right to change my mind
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: go on
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: or else let's .. move ... on
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: MOVE ON
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[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 1f
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: consent items
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: I know of none
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: anyone?
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: OK. 3 minutes behind: next item
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[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 2
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: Our chancellor asked us for a funding request for webportals hosting fees
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: I think we asked him to post more detail, as I recall. Did he?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Jamie Palisades rummages through forums - anyone know?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Sonja Strom: Arria made a post asking for US$10/month.
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: sounds a lot better, what do we get for that exactly
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: hm - I thought Alexi said US$20 last week, but no matter
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: Hosting fee, I think, Prin, with what our PIO thinks is adequate traffic
[2008/04/19 9:25] Moon Adamant: hello Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: (Justice, please assent to being recorded on the record when you get settled)
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: So
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: I think we should give our Chancellor and PIO the approval they want, to do this portal that multiple factions have stated they wish to see.
[2008/04/19 9:26] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/04/19 9:27] You: May I have a motion to approve it? (at US$10 a month) per Arria's post?
[2008/04/19 9:27] MT Lundquist: hi justice
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA approve US$10/month for the web portal project, per Arria's post here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Thanks. Any objections?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: If I hear none it passes unanimously .. yes?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Good
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: next then
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[2008/04/19 9:28] You: item 3
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Hello Roc, please siddown and assent to recording
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: by saying so
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, rezzing
[2008/04/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: helloflying roc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: and I assent
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: item (ahem) (smile) 3
[2008/04/19 9:29] MT Lundquist: hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:29] Sonja Strom: Hi Flyingroc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Symo Kurka: Hi FRC
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: Prin? Who was the chief proponent of your LRA bill? Will we take it up at this meeting?
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: hi all, and now I sit quietly.
[2008/04/19 9:29] Moon Adamant: Hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: Here's the bill: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
[2008/04/19 9:30] Jon Seattle: Hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: and I note that it's generally a direct-election-of-LRA bill, and that after this, I will raise another one which would apply only to by-elections
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i don't like haveing a bill for one circumstance and not all
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I also note that I believe one of them may be a constitutional amendment
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i think that they should all be applicable in all situations
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it one bit
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: Prin, do you, or anyone, wish to move adoption of your LRA bill posted 3 March, at the URI above, at this time?
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: LRA should stay the same formula and rules .....
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I will speak about my idea when it's proper, later in the agenda
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: but I have no motion right now
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: .. looking for one?
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: Ladies and gentlemen, if there's no motion we will not take up the March LRA bill at this time.
[2008/04/19 9:33] Jamie Palisades smiles, watches the second hand of his watch, and waits
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: OK then
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: I am going to discuss the alternative for a bit then
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I have sent another proposal to the forums, here -
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I did so for the following reason
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I think our Constitution and rules are appalling in their lack of clarity
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: and we WILL need to have an LRA after the by-election, somehow
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: and I do not personally feel that letting the SC - wether or not some of them feel they ought to recuse themselves - pick whoever it wants is wise
[2008/04/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so we make ONE rule that covers ALL situations of the RA
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: .. and that's what I think you will face, under current law - which COULD be read ambiguously to support ANY of the following outcomes:
[2008/04/19 9:35] MT Lundquist: yes i agree with prin
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: thats why we put the lra ill together
[2008/04/19 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need ONE rule then
[2008/04/19 9:36] Moon Adamant: hello Gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: bill
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: (a) old LRA just stays in place - seems odd, if voters sweep in a new faction
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: ahem let me finish, maybe?
[2008/04/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a quick hi, I don't want to interrupt, and I won't be staying long anyway)
[2008/04/19 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (b) original LRA faction (in this case CSDF), who earned it in Feb election, gets it back IF they get one or more candidates - basically re-use the old result
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: or
[2008/04/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and it needs to coordinate with the chancellor bill
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (c) use some kind of math aggregation of Borda counts from February and April, smile, which is a math major's dream argument
[2008/04/19 9:37] You:
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: I am done now.
[2008/04/19 9:37] Flyingroc Chung shudders at c
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: I propose that we add the direct election of the chancellor to the LRA bill as proposed in March
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: Prin you may speak agains this but you are out of order to talk about the March LRA bill .. unless ... there ... is ... a ... motion ... to. .pass ... it ... now
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: MT, can I take that as a motion? Please
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: if it is the bill needs to be amended
[2008/04/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: the LRA should be elected by the RA and the chancellor by the citizens
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: agenda-wise we are hitting the time limit for this. I believe we should extend. All RA members OK with 10 minute extension for this item? Please say if you object
[2008/04/19 9:39] MT Lundquist: that would give the citizens a direct line into government
[2008/04/19 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn , strangely, agrees with Princess 
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: MT can we have a motion?
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: yes the lra bill from march
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: OK - hang on - just checking text reference
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: amended for direct election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Prin, you second this, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: wouldn't that need an amend?
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Ok all hang on a sec please
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: we are working on it
[2008/04/19 9:41] MT Lundquist: yes it will
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: OK. The motion on the table is ...
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: the SECOND post (most recent version from MT) of the Billl in the thread posted in March, URI noted above ... plus ...
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: an amendment to directly elect chancellor - the text of which MT or Prin will get us during this meeting
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: that is definitely a constitutional amendment
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: some think it requires 5 votes
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to have that tabled til next session then
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: I don't, but I am not on the SC - not even the smaller non-recusable one
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we cannot write a bill in this few mins
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this done this way......
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: no prin we could act now and giv Beathan the 7 day voting period he's requested
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie dont complicat it too much
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we can but we wont
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I;m sorry, Prin, a question for clarification?
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to have time to write it correctly
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I have two questions of Prin. EVERYTHING else is out of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want a week to add the election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: these are points of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ask
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: first
[2008/04/19 9:43] MT Lundquist: i agree we should wait until next week so the text is good
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: who is the "we" and what is the "it" in your sentence "we can but we won't"?
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: huh?
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: MT I am working with Prin on a privileged point, please wait
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: the we is Nucare
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i am not a lawyer
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i have no clue what the heck you are talking about
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: geek down ok
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: pedestrian
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: ah - and the "it" is the proposal to pass this time, then use the 7 day device? You are suggesting we just hold this item for next week?
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: If you are addressing me, watch your tone, ThePrincess
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes hold the item for next week so we can add
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: very well. my first or two questions is answered.
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: "geek down" meens you are speaking above my head
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: Here's my second.
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i find that not pleasant sir
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: so back at you
[2008/04/19 9:46] You: ThePrincess, you mentioned a "ruse", please clarify or withdraw your statement. I am curious because I thought you might be referring to an action of mine?
[2008/04/19 9:46] Jamie Palisades waits patiently
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt use that word
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i didnt understand that lingo
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: so please talk to me how i can understand
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont even know what "point of order " means
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: OK, here's what my transcript has , I certainly can be mistaken:
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: [9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: a bunch of rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: thank you
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: we have a motion and second .. but ..
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Prin has suggested we withdraw it and wait until next week
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: im out by the pool and i can hardly see the screen sorry fro the typo
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Are all members OK with that?
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (waiting a week)
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (and thank you very much for the clarification Prin)
[2008/04/19 9:48] Sonja Strom: I am OK with that.
[2008/04/19 9:48] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 9:48] MT Lundquist: i'm ok to table
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: Sounds like a plan then - and MT, can you get me some text on the chancellor thing, and post it to the March thread, before next Saturday?
[2008/04/19 9:49] MT Lundquist: yes will do
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: super
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: next item, if no one has more
----
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: item 4
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: public referenda
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: note we have several active proposals from Sonja
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: and ballot expert Jon here as well to assist
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: Sonja, if I can ...
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: ..let me just clarify that, to do what you want, we would need to ...
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Bill - April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn would also like to have a small word on that after the RA members have talked, if I may.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: ... *first* make referenda legal, *second* approve the ones you'd proposed, or others, and *third* check into feasibility, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Questions Bill - April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: (Got it Gwyn)
[2008/04/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: isnt this constitutional?
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: wouldn't you want to check feasibility first?
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: sure, Prin, if we approve it, so far as I know - because Sonja's planned public questions are nonbinding, I cannot imagine a problem
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: engineer FR
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: I mean, if it cant be done why make a law for it.
[2008/04/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:51] Jon Seattle: (back)
[2008/04/19 9:51] Sonja Strom: TP, this would not be a constitutional change, because as Jamie said the results would not be legally binding but only advisory.
[2008/04/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the questions are just examples?
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: I think our esteemed simian neighbor has a great point. Sonja, would you mind if I first ask Jon about timing and feasibility?
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: They are a version of an opinion poll.
[2008/04/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: cos i dont see asking a post RA passing question
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: Sure, go ahead Jamie.
[2008/04/19 9:52] You:
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: Jon, would you care to tell us whatever might be useful about how any referenda Qs we might adopt today would integrate into the current by-election?
[2008/04/19 9:53] You: (and thanks again, both for your service to assist CDS with the ballot, and being here today to help us)
[2008/04/19 9:53] Jon Seattle: Well, at Sonja's request I added the feature to the election system. It allows yes / no questions to be added to the ballot. However, it has only been lightly tested.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: so hmm - when does the ballot turn on officially, Jon?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: noon SLT?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT today. Now, I am still waiting for final word on the citizen list, so I very much hope it will open then.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: Gwyn is answering the legal question I was asking about the device implementation
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: thank you Jon
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry.
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i would personally really like a more comprehensive bill for this
[2008/04/19 9:55] Jon Seattle: Very welcome.
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: so assuming we are willing to further abuse your good will, and ship just-in-time questions, you actually can support it
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its being rushed .. for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Please wait prin
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: that is something we can do .......a poll anyway
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Sonja has passed around 2 notecards
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: I suggest we take up the "CDS Referendum" one now - and Prin, the SECOND one will be about what questions if any we put out this tie THIS one is just to *permit* referenda
[2008/04/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant: oh, i'll wait then
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: Just a sec Moon Sonja, do you move the passage of your first notecard?
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA adopt a Referendum process as worded in my notecard.
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think we are ready to vote
[2008/04/19 9:57] You:
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: we will vote against if we do it today
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: can we wait please
[2008/04/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: "At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens."
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its too rushed sonja
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: hm - why would we need to do that, Prin? Beathan's 7 day thing?
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: Or are you just signalling that you and MT will vote against it?
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: if you dont need our votes its ok
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: well right now it would be 2 to 2, and be left to Beathan
[2008/04/19 9:58] Flyingroc Chung: 
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: which I note would make it too late for this election
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we don't want to waste with a inadequate bill
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: but we want it more comprehensive
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: It is interesting to me that you would say that.
[2008/04/19 9:58] Jamie Palisades makes a note that Prin opposes inadequate legislation, smiles and agrees generically
[2008/04/19 9:58] MT Lundquist: we want to see a better formed proposal
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: This question has been on the
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: I second it so that it can be debated - but suggest we keep further debate short
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Forum for about 3 weeks now.
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: I have been asking for input on it the whole time.
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: SOnja, then Gwyn, the Moon, then anyone else, 2 mins limit each please
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. and we have a lot of distractions place on the government sonja by our friends at CSDF who have put the most huge roadblock to government in our history
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: There has been a lot of debate on it.
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: so there is a lot going on now hun
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need it to wait
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Why do you just now say that you want it to have different wording?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: more comprehensive.. you are asking for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 10:00] Symo Kurka: I think nobody can reasonably get scared from an "only advisory" referenda....
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: (me nots that while he does not personally agree with Prin about that, her satement about CSDF is *entirely* in-bounds as appropriate wording for a legislative debate)
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: an opinion poll with no strength
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its a waste of law
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: hmmmm
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its just an opinion poll for no reason but politics
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont like it
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: Prin would you aprrove a *binding* referenda law - not about a specific topic, just generally for CDS?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do a real thing that gives power to the ppl
[2008/04/19 10:00] Sonja Strom: So, which wording do you propose, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: binding
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i will work on that after the election
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Sonja, any other comments for now?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the election that is taking so MUCH energy WAY AWAY from important things i might add
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: I feel that the CDS should be all about its citizens.
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the unneccessary one
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: If it is not, what are we even doing here?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i agree sonja
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i want it more about them than you do though
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Prin let her finish please and wait you turn
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: The entire concept of this bill was to include the community in the direction that the CDS takes.
[2008/04/19 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: if we bother them to vote, then make it meaningful, its only lipservice like this
[2008/04/19 10:02] You: last warning before I censure you Prin
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I put a lot of work into making it general enough and non-binding enough that all it would be is advisory to the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I really don't understand why anyone in the CDS, much the less in this room, would be opposed to this bill.
[2008/04/19 10:03] Sonja Strom: done, thanks.
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: cos its a waste of energy
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: its only a poll of opinions
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need to not rule by that
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to do something more
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: MORE
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: meaningful for voters
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: thank you. I have Moon, then Gwyn, then Prin if she has more - but we are talking about a referenda bill generally, not the specific proposed questions about sim 4
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like to vote for a thing that i know means nothing sonja
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: Moon? anything on this?
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: if i voote yes i want it to mean something
[2008/04/19 10:03] Moon Adamant: my question doesn't have to do with the specific referenda bill, so i'll pass and speak at the appropriate point
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: OK, Prin.
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: Please hush everyone and listen carefully
[2008/04/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: do you understand how furusteationg it can be
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: ThePrincess you are continually interrupting multiple other speakers and making it very hard for us to do our work ...
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: and I strongly suggest you stop now ..
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: here is what I am going to do about it as presiding officer ...
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: (a) I am warning you now
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: (b) I will make sure for the next meeting that I am able to physically eject members, and will ask the RA to approve that act, if you do it again next meeting AFTER multiple warnings
[2008/04/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: did Princess just leave?
[2008/04/19 10:05] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: yes i think so
[2008/04/19 10:05] Symo Kurka: lol
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: and that affects quorum
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: does it? I see we have three - although I suppose you can choose to leave if that's NuCARE's position, MT
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: We are quorate with 3 of 5 trust me, I wrote the rule
[2008/04/19 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: omg can people *stop* with this "leaving the RA" thing?
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: and I have got my point about reamining in order on the record
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: let's be civli, all, please
[2008/04/19 10:06] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie, it is unfortunate that a situation came about to where what you said was helpful, but I fully believe it did.
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: It is MY goal that everyone INCLUDING ThePrincess CAN participate effectively, and be heard, in a fair way. Period. Let's move on.
[2008/04/19 10:07] MT Lundquist: i think we need to be careful about how we treat people here
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: we had, I think, agreed to hold Sonja's bill over - and act on it next week - but Gwyn was in line to speak on it
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: I completely agree, MT
[2008/04/19 10:07] Moon Adamant: oh, MT has left too?
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: offended
[2008/04/19 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: I note that MT has left, rendering us inquorate
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer notes that MT has left the building
[2008/04/19 10:08] Sonja Strom: Nothing was said that was unfair.
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: i agree with Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: Well, I have a personal comment for the record
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: didn't hear a word addressed to both that was unpolite
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer: more unfortunate gamesmanship, I'm afraid.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: This isn't about NuCARE - I don't think Patroklus would have liked the way I used parliamentary procedure to deal with him, either, if he and I had coincided on the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Because some of his actions I found as disorderly as today's.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: So let's not anyone get all uppity about being better than Prin, hm?
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Sonja, let me just run down the other items we had, as a courtesy.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Sure, although I would also like to make a comment.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the RA still on record?
[2008/04/19 10:10] You: I suggest we let Gwyn offer her comments for the record - since she has been patiently waiting, if she likes, then simply NOTE other items and adjourn.
[2008/04/19 10:10] You:
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Of course.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: hm
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: i had some guild questions... but i suppose they can wait
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: We are in a meeting where quorum's absence has been noted. We cannot act, other to adjourn. We can sit and chat if we wish. I am suggesting we take a few minutes to do that, to make sure we have loose ends wrapped up.
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: Gywn, do you still wish to speak?
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just briefly, since there won't be a vote.
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to ask Sonja, as proponent of this bill,
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to consider Beathan's compromise (since Beathan is not here to defend his view)
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and take it as a friendly to include at least "not more than one referendum per RA term"
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, Sonja, I read you arguing otherwise)
[2008/04/19 10:13] Sonja Strom: done?
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a matter of principle, the CSDF opposes *binding referenda* except for, well, things like changing the rights of people, ending our souveraignity, annexing countries... things like that
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nothing against *consulting referenda*
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which are fine.
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a few more comments on one of the many threads on the referendum as *suggestions* but I won't bother you with the details.
[2008/04/19 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA. I'll hush now
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: hm - like to hear more about that list someday, Gwyn, but not needed for today. Done for now?
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: And Moon also had nothing on *this* item
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: Sonja? More from you on this before we move on?
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: no, just specifically on the 4th sim question
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: in a sec
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK then, this item is closed - with the note that we'll pick it back up next week
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: but it can wait
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: now
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I really don't remember Beathan proposing "not more than one referendum per RA term."
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: please look at the other items on the original agenda - see
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I would for sure consider that.
[2008/04/19 10:15] Jamie Palisades hushes to let Sonja finish
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: However, it looks like work on this bill will continue for some time, so I don't think it needs to be discussed further right now in this meeting.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: (sorry if I interrupted Gwyn
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: all done on this for now? (looking around)
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: I do have one more comment I would like to make about the disruptance earlier.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Moon Adamant: on the referenda bill? nothing to add
[2008/04/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no no, Sonja, you didn't, I was finished)
----
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: we will not take up items 5 (conflicts of interest), 6 (commerce commission) or 7 (Private Development) at this time
. . .
[continues in next post]