RA Meeting 19 April 2008 - transcript (part 1)

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Jamie Palisades
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RA Meeting 19 April 2008 - transcript (part 1)

Post by Jamie Palisades »

See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1837 for a non-normative (unofficial) index of the action items and main points from this meeting.
Transcript of 19 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= "You", below)
Topic separators "----" inserted to separate agenda items

[2008/04/19 9:06] You: Shall we start?
[2008/04/19 9:06] Moon Adamant: sorry Mr. LRA
[2008/04/19 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yep ..
[2008/04/19 9:07] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: I note that Beathan sent regrets, so we all are here, of the seated members who will come today
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: :)
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: oh
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: and i came on purpose to explain the draft analysis if needed
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: Thanks all for indulging me in meeting here - nice way to commemorate this very successful & gorgeous 3rd sim project, as we grapple with the 4th one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: Yes, Moon, let's work that in :)
[2008/04/19 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but i dont like it here
[2008/04/19 9:08] Sonja Strom: Hi Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: hello Symo :)
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: I think we were not going to do "priv dev" today in detail because Beathan's absent, but ...
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: btw, Mr LRA
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: The Guild has a question for the RA
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah lets wait for that one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: some kind of update on where we all think we agree, with sim 4, would e nice
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi smiles
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: but it can be placed wherever you like in agenda
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we are not in a hurry hun
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: OK Moon we will put it on agenda - and that agenda is here:
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: we have other things .. jamie i'll speak with you later
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: :)
[2008/04/19 9:09] Moon Adamant sits quietly and listens now
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: so we are called to order ..
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: and as item 1a
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi is always quiet and listening
[2008/04/19 9:09] Symo Kurka: (does not understand in what kinda meeting has been parachuted)
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: Would all present please indicate assent to being recorded in transcript. I assent.
[2008/04/19 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist looks shocked
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: (Symo this is regular CDS RA meeting)
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: oops
[2008/04/19 9:10] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: :)
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: (Prin, I agree, this is a small room - once we have 7 seated members again it probably is out of the question)
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: item 1b
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: Please look at the agenda - I just gave the Forum URI above in chat
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: we have one suggestion for change
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: report from Guild
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: should we just make that item 7 instead of taking up the current item 7, Beathan's "Priv Dev" bill?
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: not hearing any obj ...
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i object
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: to what?
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i cant cam and see ppl
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: its every annoiying
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: ah :)
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this room
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: sok dont mind me
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: You may safely assume we will not using it again in my term - which is 2 more meetings :)
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: ahem
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: no objection, so amended agenda is approved :)
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi nods
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: item 1c
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: Any one other than RA memebers come to speak on a specific item, who wishes to so indicate?>
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: so may i clarify?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if i want to speak what do i do exactly
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: what should say?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: see people call me a troll cos i talk too much
[2008/04/19 9:14] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into MT's hand.
[2008/04/19 9:14] You: you are an RA member :) you just tell us you want to talk - this "rule" is about nonRA members getting priority in a queue
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to know the exact words i should use
[2008/04/19 9:14] Jon Seattle: I am here to answer any questions. In particular tech questions in relation to referenda.
[2008/04/19 9:14] MT Lundquist: just in case
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but do i say.
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ?me raises her hand
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jon Seattle: i will remain quiet otherwise.
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jamie Palisades looks around - more relevant to a more crowded meeting, smile
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: or do i just talk
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: thanks :)
[2008/04/19 9:15] Moon Adamant: well, i al ready indicated that the Ng has a question, no, two questions to ask this RA
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: and Jon that may be helpful
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: they said i'm a troll jamie
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: hush
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: please
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so i want to get it right
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi hushes
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: I am not going to deal in here with attacks not raised in here, hm?
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: noting Jon and Moon's items, then - next item
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so if im a troll tell me
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1d
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know - or just make a corrective posting -- but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: next
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1e
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Future times for meetings
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: I have the following suggestion
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well this isn't working
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Beathan & the rest of us are expecting this time, for the next week, so let's do 9 am Satuday again on the ...
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to go back to sunday and maybe move it back so you have time
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: 26th, SLT
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe one on sunday instead of noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry this isnt seeming to work .. but then
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well its too late in the UK
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: OK, Prin, how is this not working?
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i just dont think we can find a good time nvm
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well no one is here
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: how come we had packed meetings and all RA memebers every time on sunday ant noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and now
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and last week
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: not so much
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: um :) this is not a roman circus, it's a meeting which needs quorum, so to *my* eye it works if we get quorum
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i like an audience
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: do you think that other meeting time was better for - um - spectators?
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well the citizens need to watch
[2008/04/19 9:18] Xcite! Ruler is now aimed at ThePrincess Parisi
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes cos twice in a roow not all the ppl in RA are here
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its not good now with out beathan
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: I imagine you might, dear - my own cross to carry has been only to make sure we can keep a quorum, when we only have 5 seated :)
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and no cindy
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: Now
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: here's my take
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: see i need my faction here to IM me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: Last week and this week we had one member gone - due to a nonrepeating one time commitment
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: im a nucare REP
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: not just me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but one time is now two
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: MT's reunion, Beathan's caucus - both one-time RL events
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: one time what, Prin?
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan was not here last time
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and now two in a row
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: without everyone
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and the common denominator is time
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: mt could have been here if it was sunday
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: see
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: me personal view is that we are both meeting too much - and have insufficient rules for kicking people who miss meetings off the RA :D
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the middle of the weekend
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sunday at one is the end but for us in sltime
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: so its more ppl at home
[2008/04/19 9:20] Xcite! Ruler whispers: MT stares at ThePrincess Parisi's body and taps the ruler against his hand.
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: so in summary Prin - so that we do not spent all morning n repetitions of this point - you have decided that you prefer Sunday?
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: Whaat
[2008/04/19 9:20] Sonja Strom: Beathan posted in the Forum that he would have to be gone these two Saturdays to be a RL party delegate.
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so i do a concert then now cos its a good time
[2008/04/19 9:21] Sonja Strom: He said after this one he could make it on Saturdays.
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: OK, well, you were one of the people who indicated a poiossible conflict with US Sunday morning church time - but let's bring this to A CLOSE for now
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: but we dont have as big of an audience
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like that part
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: I plan to call the next meeting one week from now at 9 am SLT :) You may overrule me now if you like. Otherwise, if no motion to do so, let's move on
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like sundays
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: nope i wont come
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: but Princess
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: I'm sorry? what are you saying, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: nvm
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: i am sure that your party is agog to support you even on saturdays
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: Ahem
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: go on im gonna pout
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: ThePrincess have you announced that you plan not to attend next week unless you get a time you like? If so please be quite clear on the record, right now.
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: OR MAKE A MOTION
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: no i will reserve my right to change my mind
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: go on
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: or else let's .. move ... on
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: MOVE ON
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 1f
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: consent items
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: I know of none
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: anyone?
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: OK. 3 minutes behind: next item
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 2
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: Our chancellor asked us for a funding request for webportals hosting fees
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: I think we asked him to post more detail, as I recall. Did he?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Jamie Palisades rummages through forums - anyone know?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Sonja Strom: Arria made a post asking for US$10/month.
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: sounds a lot better, what do we get for that exactly
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: hm - I thought Alexi said US$20 last week, but no matter
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: Hosting fee, I think, Prin, with what our PIO thinks is adequate traffic
[2008/04/19 9:25] Moon Adamant: hello Justice :)
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: (Justice, please assent to being recorded on the record when you get settled)
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: So
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: I think we should give our Chancellor and PIO the approval they want, to do this portal that multiple factions have stated they wish to see.
[2008/04/19 9:26] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/04/19 9:27] You: May I have a motion to approve it? (at US$10 a month) per Arria's post?
[2008/04/19 9:27] MT Lundquist: hi justice
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA approve US$10/month for the web portal project, per Arria's post here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Thanks. Any objections?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: If I hear none it passes unanimously .. yes?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Good
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: next then
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: item 3
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Hello Roc, please siddown and assent to recording
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: by saying so
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, rezzing
[2008/04/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: helloflying roc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: and I assent
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: item (ahem) (smile) 3
[2008/04/19 9:29] MT Lundquist: hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:29] Sonja Strom: Hi Flyingroc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Symo Kurka: Hi FRC
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: Prin? Who was the chief proponent of your LRA bill? Will we take it up at this meeting?
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: hi all, and now I sit quietly.
[2008/04/19 9:29] Moon Adamant: Hi FR :)
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: Here's the bill: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
[2008/04/19 9:30] Jon Seattle: Hi FR :)
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: and I note that it's generally a direct-election-of-LRA bill, and that after this, I will raise another one which would apply only to by-elections
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i don't like haveing a bill for one circumstance and not all
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I also note that I believe one of them may be a constitutional amendment :)
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i think that they should all be applicable in all situations
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it one bit
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: Prin, do you, or anyone, wish to move adoption of your LRA bill posted 3 March, at the URI above, at this time?
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: LRA should stay the same formula and rules .....
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I will speak about my idea when it's proper, later in the agenda
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: but I have no motion right now
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: :D .. looking for one?
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: Ladies and gentlemen, if there's no motion we will not take up the March LRA bill at this time.
[2008/04/19 9:33] Jamie Palisades smiles, watches the second hand of his watch, and waits
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: OK then
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: I am going to discuss the alternative for a bit then
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I have sent another proposal to the forums, here -
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I did so for the following reason
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I think our Constitution and rules are appalling in their lack of clarity
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: and we WILL need to have an LRA after the by-election, somehow
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: and I do not personally feel that letting the SC - wether or not some of them feel they ought to recuse themselves :) - pick whoever it wants is wise
[2008/04/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so we make ONE rule that covers ALL situations of the RA
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: .. and that's what I think you will face, under current law - which COULD be read ambiguously to support ANY of the following outcomes:
[2008/04/19 9:35] MT Lundquist: yes i agree with prin
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: thats why we put the lra ill together
[2008/04/19 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need ONE rule then
[2008/04/19 9:36] Moon Adamant: hello Gwyn :)
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: bill
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: (a) old LRA just stays in place - seems odd, if voters sweep in a new faction
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: ahem :) let me finish, maybe?
[2008/04/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a quick hi, I don't want to interrupt, and I won't be staying long anyway)
[2008/04/19 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn :)
[2008/04/19 9:36] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (b) original LRA faction (in this case CSDF), who earned it in Feb election, gets it back IF they get one or more candidates - basically re-use the old result
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: or
[2008/04/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and it needs to coordinate with the chancellor bill
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (c) use some kind of math aggregation of Borda counts from February and April, smile, which is a math major's dream argument
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: :)
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: I am done now.
[2008/04/19 9:37] Flyingroc Chung shudders at c
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: I propose that we add the direct election of the chancellor to the LRA bill as proposed in March
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: Prin you may speak agains this but you are out of order to talk about the March LRA bill .. unless ... there ... is ... a ... motion ... to. .pass ... it ... now
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: MT, can I take that as a motion? Please :)
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: if it is the bill needs to be amended
[2008/04/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: the LRA should be elected by the RA and the chancellor by the citizens
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: agenda-wise we are hitting the time limit for this. I believe we should extend. All RA members OK with 10 minute extension for this item? Please say if you object :)
[2008/04/19 9:39] MT Lundquist: that would give the citizens a direct line into government
[2008/04/19 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn , strangely, agrees with Princess ;)
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: MT can we have a motion?
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: yes the lra bill from march
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: OK - hang on - just checking text reference
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: amended for direct election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Prin, you second this, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: wouldn't that need an amend?
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Ok all hang on a sec please
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: we are working on it :)
[2008/04/19 9:41] MT Lundquist: yes it will
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: OK. The motion on the table is ...
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: the SECOND post (most recent version from MT) of the Billl in the thread posted in March, URI noted above ... plus ...
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: an amendment to directly elect chancellor - the text of which MT or Prin will get us during this meeting :)
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: that is definitely a constitutional amendment :)
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: some think it requires 5 votes
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to have that tabled til next session then
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: I don't, but I am not on the SC - not even the smaller non-recusable one :)
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we cannot write a bill in this few mins
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this done this way......
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: no prin we could act now and giv Beathan the 7 day voting period he's requested :)
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie dont complicat it too much
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we can but we wont
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I;m sorry, Prin, a question for clarification?
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to have time to write it correctly
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I have two questions of Prin. EVERYTHING else is out of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want a week to add the election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: these are points of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ask
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: first
[2008/04/19 9:43] MT Lundquist: i agree we should wait until next week so the text is good
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: who is the "we" and what is the "it" in your sentence "we can but we won't"?
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: huh?
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: MT I am working with Prin on a privileged point, please wait
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: the we is Nucare
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i am not a lawyer
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i have no clue what the heck you are talking about
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: geek down ok
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: pedestrian
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: ah - and the "it" is the proposal to pass this time, then use the 7 day device? You are suggesting we just hold this item for next week?
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: If you are addressing me, watch your tone, ThePrincess
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes hold the item for next week so we can add
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: very well. my first or two questions is answered.
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: "geek down" meens you are speaking above my head
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: Here's my second.
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i find that not pleasant sir
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: so back at you
[2008/04/19 9:46] You: ThePrincess, you mentioned a "ruse", please clarify or withdraw your statement. I am curious because I thought you might be referring to an action of mine?
[2008/04/19 9:46] Jamie Palisades waits patiently
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt use that word
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i didnt understand that lingo
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: so please talk to me how i can understand
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont even know what "point of order " means
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: OK, here's what my transcript has , I certainly can be mistaken:
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: [9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: a bunch of rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: thank you
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: we have a motion and second .. but ..
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Prin has suggested we withdraw it and wait until next week
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: im out by the pool and i can hardly see the screen sorry fro the typo
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Are all members OK with that?
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (waiting a week)
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (and thank you very much for the clarification Prin)
[2008/04/19 9:48] Sonja Strom: I am OK with that.
[2008/04/19 9:48] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 9:48] MT Lundquist: i'm ok to table
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: Sounds like a plan then - and MT, can you get me some text on the chancellor thing, and post it to the March thread, before next Saturday?
[2008/04/19 9:49] MT Lundquist: yes will do
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: super
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: next item, if no one has more
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: item 4
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: public referenda
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: note we have several active proposals from Sonja
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: and ballot expert Jon here as well to assist
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: Sonja, if I can ...
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: ..let me just clarify that, to do what you want, we would need to ...
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Bill - April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn would also like to have a small word on that after the RA members have talked, if I may.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: ... *first* make referenda legal, *second* approve the ones you'd proposed, or others, and *third* check into feasibility, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Questions Bill - April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: (Got it Gwyn)
[2008/04/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: isnt this constitutional?
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: wouldn't you want to check feasibility first?
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: sure, Prin, if we approve it, so far as I know - because Sonja's planned public questions are nonbinding, I cannot imagine a problem
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: :D engineer FR
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: I mean, if it cant be done why make a law for it.
[2008/04/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :-)
[2008/04/19 9:51] Jon Seattle: (back)
[2008/04/19 9:51] Sonja Strom: TP, this would not be a constitutional change, because as Jamie said the results would not be legally binding but only advisory.
[2008/04/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the questions are just examples?
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: I think our esteemed simian neighbor has a great point. Sonja, would you mind if I first ask Jon about timing and feasibility?
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: They are a version of an opinion poll.
[2008/04/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: cos i dont see asking a post RA passing question
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: Sure, go ahead Jamie.
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: :)
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: Jon, would you care to tell us whatever might be useful about how any referenda Qs we might adopt today would integrate into the current by-election?
[2008/04/19 9:53] You: (and thanks again, both for your service to assist CDS with the ballot, and being here today to help us)
[2008/04/19 9:53] Jon Seattle: Well, at Sonja's request I added the feature to the election system. It allows yes / no questions to be added to the ballot. However, it has only been lightly tested.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: so hmm - when does the ballot turn on officially, Jon?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: noon SLT?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT today. Now, I am still waiting for final word on the citizen list, so I very much hope it will open then.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: Gwyn is answering the legal question :) I was asking about the device implementation
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: thank you Jon
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry.
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i would personally really like a more comprehensive bill for this
[2008/04/19 9:55] Jon Seattle: Very welcome.
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: so assuming we are willing to further abuse your good will, and ship just-in-time questions, you actually can support it :)
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its being rushed .. for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Please wait prin
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: that is something we can do .......a poll anyway
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Sonja has passed around 2 notecards
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: I suggest we take up the "CDS Referendum" one now - and Prin, the SECOND one will be about what questions if any we put out this tie :) THIS one is just to *permit* referenda
[2008/04/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant: oh, i'll wait then
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: Just a sec Moon :) Sonja, do you move the passage of your first notecard?
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA adopt a Referendum process as worded in my notecard.
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think we are ready to vote
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: :)
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: we will vote against if we do it today
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: can we wait please
[2008/04/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: "At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens."
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its too rushed sonja
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: hm - why would we need to do that, Prin? Beathan's 7 day thing?
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: Or are you just signalling that you and MT will vote against it?
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: if you dont need our votes its ok
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: well right now it would be 2 to 2, and be left to Beathan
[2008/04/19 9:58] Flyingroc Chung: :-(
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: which I note would make it too late for this election
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we don't want to waste with a inadequate bill
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: but we want it more comprehensive
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: It is interesting to me that you would say that.
[2008/04/19 9:58] Jamie Palisades makes a note that Prin opposes inadequate legislation, smiles and agrees generically
[2008/04/19 9:58] MT Lundquist: we want to see a better formed proposal
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: This question has been on the
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: I second it so that it can be debated - but suggest we keep further debate short
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Forum for about 3 weeks now.
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: I have been asking for input on it the whole time.
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: SOnja, then Gwyn, the Moon, then anyone else, 2 mins limit each please
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. and we have a lot of distractions place on the government sonja by our friends at CSDF who have put the most huge roadblock to government in our history
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: There has been a lot of debate on it.
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: so there is a lot going on now hun
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need it to wait
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Why do you just now say that you want it to have different wording?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: more comprehensive.. you are asking for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 10:00] Symo Kurka: I think nobody can reasonably get scared from an "only advisory" referenda....
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: (me nots that while he does not personally agree with Prin about that, her satement about CSDF is *entirely* in-bounds as appropriate wording for a legislative debate)
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: an opinion poll with no strength
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its a waste of law
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: hmmmm
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its just an opinion poll for no reason but politics
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont like it
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: Prin would you aprrove a *binding* referenda law - not about a specific topic, just generally for CDS?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do a real thing that gives power to the ppl
[2008/04/19 10:00] Sonja Strom: So, which wording do you propose, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: binding
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i will work on that after the election
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Sonja, any other comments for now?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the election that is taking so MUCH energy WAY AWAY from important things i might add
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: I feel that the CDS should be all about its citizens.
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the unneccessary one
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: If it is not, what are we even doing here?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i agree sonja
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i want it more about them than you do though
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Prin let her finish please and wait you turn
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: The entire concept of this bill was to include the community in the direction that the CDS takes.
[2008/04/19 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: if we bother them to vote, then make it meaningful, its only lipservice like this
[2008/04/19 10:02] You: last warning before I censure you Prin
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I put a lot of work into making it general enough and non-binding enough that all it would be is advisory to the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I really don't understand why anyone in the CDS, much the less in this room, would be opposed to this bill.
[2008/04/19 10:03] Sonja Strom: done, thanks.
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: cos its a waste of energy
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: its only a poll of opinions
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need to not rule by that
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to do something more
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: MORE
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: meaningful for voters
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: thank you. I have Moon, then Gwyn, then Prin if she has more - but we are talking about a referenda bill generally, not the specific proposed questions about sim 4
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like to vote for a thing that i know means nothing sonja
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: Moon? anything on this?
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: if i voote yes i want it to mean something
[2008/04/19 10:03] Moon Adamant: my question doesn't have to do with the specific referenda bill, so i'll pass and speak at the appropriate point
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: OK, Prin.
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: Please hush everyone and listen carefully
[2008/04/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: do you understand how furusteationg it can be
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: ThePrincess you are continually interrupting multiple other speakers and making it very hard for us to do our work ...
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: and I strongly suggest you stop now ..
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: here is what I am going to do about it as presiding officer ...
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: (a) I am warning you now
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: (b) I will make sure for the next meeting that I am able to physically eject members, and will ask the RA to approve that act, if you do it again next meeting AFTER multiple warnings
[2008/04/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: did Princess just leave?
[2008/04/19 10:05] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: yes i think so
[2008/04/19 10:05] Symo Kurka: lol
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: :) I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: and that affects quorum
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: does it? I see we have three - although I suppose you can choose to leave if that's NuCARE's position, MT
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: We are quorate with 3 of 5 :) trust me, I wrote the rule
[2008/04/19 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D
[2008/04/19 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: omg can people *stop* with this "leaving the RA" thing?
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: and I have got my point about reamining in order on the record
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: let's be civli, all, please
[2008/04/19 10:06] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie, it is unfortunate that a situation came about to where what you said was helpful, but I fully believe it did.
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: It is MY goal that everyone INCLUDING ThePrincess CAN participate effectively, and be heard, in a fair way. Period. Let's move on.
[2008/04/19 10:07] MT Lundquist: i think we need to be careful about how we treat people here
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: we had, I think, agreed to hold Sonja's bill over - and act on it next week - but Gwyn was in line to speak on it
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: I completely agree, MT :)
[2008/04/19 10:07] Moon Adamant: oh, MT has left too?
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: offended
[2008/04/19 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: I note that MT has left, rendering us inquorate
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer notes that MT has left the building
[2008/04/19 10:08] Sonja Strom: Nothing was said that was unfair.
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: i agree with Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: Well, I have a personal comment for the record
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: didn't hear a word addressed to both that was unpolite
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer: more unfortunate gamesmanship, I'm afraid.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: :) This isn't about NuCARE - I don't think Patroklus would have liked the way I used parliamentary procedure to deal with him, either, if he and I had coincided on the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Because some of his actions I found as disorderly as today's.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: So let's not anyone get all uppity about being better than Prin, hm?
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Sonja, let me just run down the other items we had, as a courtesy.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Sure, although I would also like to make a comment.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the RA still on record?
[2008/04/19 10:10] You: I suggest we let Gwyn offer her comments for the record - since she has been patiently waiting, if she likes, then simply NOTE other items and adjourn.
[2008/04/19 10:10] You: :)
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Of course.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: hm
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: i had some guild questions... but i suppose they can wait
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: We are in a meeting where quorum's absence has been noted. We cannot act, other to adjourn. We can sit and chat if we wish. I am suggesting we take a few minutes to do that, to make sure we have loose ends wrapped up.
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: Gywn, do you still wish to speak?
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just briefly, since there won't be a vote.
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to ask Sonja, as proponent of this bill,
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to consider Beathan's compromise (since Beathan is not here to defend his view)
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and take it as a friendly to include at least "not more than one referendum per RA term"
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, Sonja, I read you arguing otherwise)
[2008/04/19 10:13] Sonja Strom: done?
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a matter of principle, the CSDF opposes *binding referenda* except for, well, things like changing the rights of people, ending our souveraignity, annexing countries... things like that
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nothing against *consulting referenda*
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which are fine.
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a few more comments on one of the many threads on the referendum as *suggestions* but I won't bother you with the details.
[2008/04/19 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA. I'll hush now :)
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: hm - like to hear more about that list someday, Gwyn, but not needed for today. Done for now?
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: And Moon also had nothing on *this* item
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: Sonja? More from you on this before we move on?
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: no, just specifically on the 4th sim question
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: in a sec :)
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK then, this item is closed - with the note that we'll pick it back up next week
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: but it can wait
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: now
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I really don't remember Beathan proposing "not more than one referendum per RA term."
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: :) please look at the other items on the original agenda - see
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I would for sure consider that.
[2008/04/19 10:15] Jamie Palisades hushes to let Sonja finish
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: However, it looks like work on this bill will continue for some time, so I don't think it needs to be discussed further right now in this meeting.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: (sorry if I interrupted Gwyn :)
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: all done on this for now? (looking around)
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: I do have one more comment I would like to make about the disruptance earlier.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Moon Adamant: on the referenda bill? nothing to add
[2008/04/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no no, Sonja, you didn't, I was finished)
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: we will not take up items 5 (conflicts of interest), 6 (commerce commission) or 7 (Private Development) at this time
. . .
[continues in next post]

Last edited by Jamie Palisades on Sat May 03, 2008 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RA Meeting 19 April 2008 - transcript (part 2)

Post by Jamie Palisades »

[continued from prior post]
. . .
[2008/04/19 10:16] Moon Adamant: on the referenda bill? nothing to add
[2008/04/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no no, Sonja, you didn't, I was finished)
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: we will not take up items 5 (conflicts of interest), 6 (commerce commission) or 7 (Private Development) at this time
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: But let's have Moon tell us what the Guild ...
[2008/04/19 10:17] Moon Adamant: Sonja first?
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: .. had in mind about sim 4, related to item 7, to get it on the record ...
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: OK. More from you, Sonja?
[2008/04/19 10:17] Moon Adamant: no, not related to item 7
[2008/04/19 10:17] Sonja Strom: ThePrincess and MT are elected officials, and as such can make any decisons in relation to the RA that they choose. For example, leaving in the middle of a meeting. However, it is clearly not helpful in any way if they are disrupting the order of the meetings and interrupting other speakers.
[2008/04/19 10:18] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: there are conceptual devices called 'Democracy Aids'
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: which could help
[2008/04/19 10:18] You: ??
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: soapbox, which you know, is one
[2008/04/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The hmm "talking stick"
[2008/04/19 10:19] You: We are talking about how to keep order? :)
[2008/04/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: i am suggesting that technological solutions may help
[2008/04/19 10:19] You: It seems to me that, if one uses such a device but others do not cooperate, the presiding officer still gets to tye same place of being required (as our laws permit) to use first warnings, and then sanctions, no?
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: of course
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, most definitely :)
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "social" measures always work better than "technological" ones ;)
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: of course
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But technology can surely help a bit.
[2008/04/19 10:20] Flyingroc Chung: you can have a scripted device auto-boot the person after making too many interruptions :-)
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: the democracy aids are not intended to replace your power
[2008/04/19 10:20] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: but to help maintain order
[2008/04/19 10:21] You: Let's ask for less levity - friends, it is no fun when someone has to be cautioned, censured or sanctioned.
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: The proper goal of a legislat8ive body is to restore them to constructive access to the session ASAP, so let's not get into personalities please.
[2008/04/19 10:22] Moon Adamant: Jamie, i totally agree with you
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: now as for the devices
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: here's the thing
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: we'd need to know WHAT it does and HOW based on what triggers - which I guess is saying, I am happy to let smart techies like Jon, CIndy or Roc program ballot boxes which I do NOT fully understand - but
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: if I were an RA member I would want to know VERY well exactly what triggers the little stormtropper gadgets use :)
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: hmmm no
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: so
[2008/04/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, more visual aids really, Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: imagine this
[2008/04/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessaruily "kick avatar if they have spoken for more than 3 minutes"
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: a small planetarium
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: each person in chat range has a sphere
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: as the people talk, the spheres increase proportionally to the ammount of total time they consume of teh discussion
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: so you have two effects
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: you see who is dominating teh discussion
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: people who are little participative may feel encouraged to participate more
[2008/04/19 10:25] You: Interesting (smile) - and maybe we take this thread to the forums? - but for RA meeting purposes, can we hold over that kind offer of suggestions and assistance, for the first meeting after our new by-election RA members are seated?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: NY Law School had a similar project to this in hmmm
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: 2004?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Flyingroc Chung: oh god I am remnded of meetings where people who have nothing to say say stupid things just to sound "participatory"
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: you remember Justice?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Justice Soothsayer: we used the soapbox in the RA during the contentious judiciary debates
[2008/04/19 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/04/19 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: Clarence Thomas has it right ;-)
[2008/04/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: i think it later on passed to Democracy island
[2008/04/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: it was this chair scheme... that approached/got further from teh centre
[2008/04/19 10:26] Justice Soothsayer shudders at Thomas
[2008/04/19 10:27] You: Take to the forums, please? :) can we, before departing today, ask Moon to tell us what the Guild was wishing to ask? Even though it will need to go to the forums - and next RA mtg - if you wish to give us a summary now, Moon, you've been patiently waiting.
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: the Guild is currentluy developing a lot of projects
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: requested work
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: Masterplan, BAC, 4th sim, etc
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: ah, i must also say
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: that Faculty elections will occur in the 24th April
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: as you know, we organize ourselves in workgroups
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: to accomplish these tasks
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: the 4th sim workgroup (btw, could teh RA think on a name for it?'
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: has met
[2008/04/19 10:29] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: and has 2 questions for the RA
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: one, which is simpler
[2008/04/19 10:29] You: Colonia Adamantum? heh
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: is if we can go down from the 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: in order to be able to have a prim multiplier
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: we believe that perhaps with 4-5 plots less
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: we can give that multiplier to the future citizens
[2008/04/19 10:31] Moon Adamant: increasing their CN-4 experience
[2008/04/19 10:31] Moon Adamant: comments on this question?
[2008/04/19 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn will excuse herself for today and leave a bit earlier -- sorry to interrupt, Moon, and bye bye to all :) [and yes, permission granted to record everything I say and POST it on the forums, wink wink]
[2008/04/19 10:31] You: I do - any others?
[2008/04/19 10:32] You: ok then
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: Moon, I have 3 Qs
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: and yes, we will need to get any official acts from the RA next week
[2008/04/19 10:33] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: or whenever we are next quorate ..
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: 1. on the double/prim 50 thing: I believe the RA gave ytou the go-ahead, but subject to the Guild being able to come back and get clarity
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: so
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: one second please
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: sorry, back
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: not double multiplier
[2008/04/19 10:34] You: I see this as one of those things where the guild is waiting for the RA, now, and it's up to use to come back to you, to keep the timeline moving. Is that a fair take?
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: but possibly 1.5 or so
[2008/04/19 10:35] You: ok, got it, > x2.0
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: mind also that we published these maps here
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: in teh forums
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: so that Guild memebers can sketch their plans
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: as it's our usual method
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: as you know, our process is iterative
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: aiming towards a goal
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: which is optimal, perhaps not THE best
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: but optimal
[2008/04/19 10:37] You: yes. hmm. This is CN on the map on the table. Something on these maps we need to talk about? Or can I ask my other Qs first?
[2008/04/19 10:37] Moon Adamant: so i think our question is: is 50 plots an imperative necessity?
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: ah :) that was my second point
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: remind that the white paper talked 'about' 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:38] Justice Soothsayer must excuse himself
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: ta Justice
[2008/04/19 10:38] Justice Soothsayer: /salute
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: see you later Justice
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: Moon:
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: here's my concern
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: There's a procedural fork in the road here
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: if the Guild (a) ASKS 'did you really mean 50', I think the answer will come back "yes'
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: sort of obvious - that's what their resolution said
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: so what if
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: but (b)
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: well, it said 'about 50 plots'
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: 46 plots is about 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:40] You: if the Guild says 'we think 50 will NOT work and RECOMMEND "x" value instead, I think you get a more likely ear, here. So it comes down to whetehr ther Guild will express an opinion
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: we will do that then
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: also as when we start getting input and layouts
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: next question
[2008/04/19 10:40] You: Hye I am find with leaving it "as is" too, I just wanted to point out that the wording of the Guild's missive might affect its reception
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: yes one more only for now
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: I have been watching the masterplan work - and thank YOU Symo for all your efforts there
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: well, you see that planning is an interactive process
[2008/04/19 10:41] Symo Kurka: yw Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: you don't freeze stuff at any given point... only at the end
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: The limited concern I have for now is this
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: and yes, Symo's been doing a great work
[2008/04/19 10:42] Moon Adamant: :))
[2008/04/19 10:42] Symo Kurka: (blushes)
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: will there be blowback, in the sense that CDS *must* take some future-sims issues into mind, and will have answers for them, by the time the final decisions/shape of the sim 4 work is done?
[2008/04/19 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: well guys, I gotta go
[2008/04/19 10:42] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: I am a little concerned that we "go hard" on 4 and THEN find out we've screwed up something else - since we seem to have a strong consensus to move FAST on 4
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: Ta Roc
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: well, that has to do with my second question
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: when we look at the CN map
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: which is the one in the middle of the grid
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: we have a high density area to the west
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: teh CN city proper
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: and to the east
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: we have lower densities... villas, etc
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: The 4th sim WG feels
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: that a better option to accomodate the 4th sim
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: would be CN-West
[2008/04/19 10:44] You: ah
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: for two reasons
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: 1. we can make a denser area to the north, which is a natural following of the city density
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: 2. if you watch the river
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: you will see that it cuts CN-West in two at insertion point
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: this *could* allow
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: a denser area to the north... city
[2008/04/19 10:46] Moon Adamant: and a less dense area to the south... bigger plots... perhaps no streets but paths only
[2008/04/19 10:46] Moon Adamant: which could make the linkage to the future AM-West simpler
[2008/04/19 10:46] You: so it's sort of a placement issue. OK, helpful to hear. I'd frame that as a second possible Guild recommendation, i.e., would the RA mind if we put dense sim 4 on the other side of CN? Now, if that's what you bring back to the RA next week, another Q that may some up then is this: how urgently must we act like Desmond does in Caledon to reserve/buy some strategic nearby map squares -- to protect our regional footprint? And if there are issues there, do we need to move faster on some voids if the CN urban extension goes east versus west?
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: i will ask Symo to comment further, in case i forgot something
[2008/04/19 10:47] You: forgive the typos
[2008/04/19 10:47] You: (thanks for your patience, all, I know I'm finding this very helpful)
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: well, if you look at the map
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: you will see that CN -West or East defend exactly the same territory
[2008/04/19 10:48] Moon Adamant: we're not playing checkerboards... space is empty around CN
[2008/04/19 10:48] You: ok - o THIS one decision is not too strategicaly consequential :)
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: issues will happen when we start expanding the NFS cluster to south and East
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: from a map-minding point of view
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: no, none at all
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: yes, that's where I personally fret about needing voids soon, too
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: those you can indeed place like pawns
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: Sonja, any questions before we let these nice patient people go?
[2008/04/19 10:50] Sonja Strom: No, but I would like to thank them for all of the work they have put into this project. :-0
[2008/04/19 10:50] Sonja Strom: :-)
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: I second that :)
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: ehehe
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: our pleasure
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: Anything else from the Guild for now?
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: let me resume then
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: :)
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: atm: faculty elections are occuring
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: masterplan is full speed
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: tahnks to Symo :)
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: sim 4 is going, i am expecting that people start presenting layouts
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: hmmm
[2008/04/19 10:51] Symo Kurka: .. and tons of volunteers
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: :)
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: we are currently also discussing how to adapt the Guild
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: in the light of the Draft Analysis/Beathan's proposal
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: plus tons of other projects
[2008/04/19 10:52] You: the Guild has advised the RA that we will receive some charter change proposals eventuaslly, so we'll wait for you to come back to us, on that
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: those are being drafted atm
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: May I ask - about the faculty elections
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: they will have to be presented to the Faculty and Board
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: approved there
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: and then approved by you
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: sure
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: there's some inept wordsin the Constitution abot rotatioons and timing election to try and make sure we give people opportunities to serve in one place or the otyher
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: the spirit seems clear, though .. and ...
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: the new charter will have conflict of interest clauses too
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: is that what you mean?
[2008/04/19 10:54] You: it seems sort of unfortunate that a faculty election closing the 24th April might prevent you from electing from any of the 5 RA candidates now running -- of which we will only get 2 for the RA. How's that work?
[2008/04/19 10:54] You: no -- I am thinking about election timing, not confliucts
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: well, atm
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: :) I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:55] You: If I were a candidate of RA in this b-election, does that *prevent* me from joining the faculty, if I lose on the 26th?
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: could run for RA and for Faculty Chair
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/19 10:55] You: or can one be both?
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: let me explain
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: The Board, as you know is an ad-hoc democracy
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: who's there, votes
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: the Faculty is more like teh SC
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: it's a meritocracy
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: and peopel get invited to be Faculty members
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: and are voted in
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: atm, teh Faculty is small
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: as i say, only Dnate is in the position you mention
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: BUT
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: even if he is elected to the RA
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: that doesn't stop him from being a faculty member
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: ah OK
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: so in summary, no immediate problems under current law
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: good, that's all I was wondering
[2008/04/19 10:58] You: and thank you again, both for your work, and or your patiene today
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: btw, Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: a workgroup that has been created
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: is to study current gov spaces
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: and better them/increase them
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: give an office to teh chancellor, a meeting room for the SC
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: Ah ha. That sounds lie a good idea. And I recall the thread about an office for Alexi and Arria. May we adjourn officially? And then if there'a a desire to chat, that can be done informally

[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: increase teh seating space in the rathaus, etc
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: sure, i second
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: ha ha
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: OK we are adjoruned


== My Second Life home is CDS. Retired after three terms
== as chancellor of the oldest self-governing sims in SL.
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